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Continual Water Pressure Problem (Read 3834 times)
treece keenes
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Continual Water Pressure Problem
Jul 26th, 2009, 8:31pm
 
Hello - I have googled to find a forum to adress an ongoing problem that professionals haven't been able to fix in 2 attempts. Here is the scenario that needs more ideas so when ever this happens maybe we can find some faster fix.
      Inevitably the water tank up on the hill runs dry about once a year. Usually due to a mechanical problem. But when we get the pump back on line the camp only gets half to a quarter of full pressure. Then we pull our hair out for a while - and sometimes calll in the professionals and after taking apart some pipes and putting them back together without finding problems then at some point the pressure mysteriously comes back. The common elements in the 5 times this has happened is the tank runs dry - we get the water back online - the pressure won't come up - after seemingless pointless work by us and sometimes professionals the pressure comes back up and no one including professionals knows why.
I figure someone out there either knows exactly what the problem is or can give us some new ideas to brain storm on. Thanks for your time! i will be glued to the monitor!
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thescruff
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Re: Continual Water Pressure Problem
Reply #1 - Jul 26th, 2009, 9:02pm
 
Need to know much more about the mechanical side of the system.

Obviously the camp is gravity fed, but what is the height of the tank (head).

What is at the bottom, how and what does it feed.

One has to assume you are getting an air lock, or sludge when it runs out, so a simple solution would be to install a by-pass, between the pump and the gravity circuit, then you could purge the line by opening the valve.
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Re: Continual Water Pressure Problem
Reply #2 - Jul 27th, 2009, 12:37am
 
Thanks for responding Scruff.  I am actually trying to help some friend swho have campers arriving today and the tank was empty this morning due to an error - i will describe the system as best i can.  Like you we always keep coming back to something to do with air getting into the system but no one can prove it.  Your idea to have a contingency pipe may have to be done since this seems to happen on a regular basis.  Its an old camp on national forest property so it is a system that probably needs to be overhauled if it wasn't for being on leased land.  The tank is just at 100 feet up (34 Meters) and comes down a 3 inch pipe.  At the base of the hill it immediately splits to a downhill drop of 3 meters on its way to the swimming pool.  The problem has always been assumed to be the area past this junction that continues into the rest of the camp.  In the next 10 meters where it splits 3 ways into 1 inch pipe to the rest of the camp.  This area might have a bow in the pipe from settling.  The rest of the piping goes through uneven terrain and drops further.  But to the kitchen where we don't get any water at all it must climb a meter or 2.  When the pressure is good this is no problem,  thanks for the idea about the sludge!! will go up and take a look at the tank and see how deep it is there.  wouldn't be surprised that refilling the tank would distrub some.  Thanks for your ideas so far!  Smiley
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Re: Continual Water Pressure Problem
Reply #3 - Jul 27th, 2009, 9:39am
 
It wouldn't be that difficult to chuck a float switch in the tank, and wire an alarm for low water.
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Re: Continual Water Pressure Problem
Reply #4 - Jul 27th, 2009, 4:28pm
 
A curious problem.. I can't imagine it being an airlock with that amount of head pressure.

Are all the outlets from all 3 1" branches effected equally? Is the tank allowed to fill fully before use? Do you bleed the air from every outlet after filling?
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Re: Continual Water Pressure Problem
Reply #5 - Jul 27th, 2009, 5:18pm
 
Scruff - the tank does have a float switch to turn on the pump - an alarm would be a great idea whenever pump problems come up.

Headrush - no i think they just start filling the tank so the first water goes straight back down the hill to fill up the camp - and no they don't bleed every outlet after filling - though they go test each building to see if it has pressure.  There is certainly no set procedure for refilling the camp.  and no the branches are not affected equally - the kitchen gets only a trickle when this happens and then at some point the pressure comes on strong to the whole camp

I have been sharing the ideas with the maintenance guy - eventually he should get a better grasp of this problem with all the brainstorming.  The solution he is trying today is an adaptation of Scruffs idea.  He is hooking up an outlet at the bottom of the hill at the 3 inch juncture so that he will have a water source of higher pressure for back washing and trying to flush possible blockages.  We'll see how that goes today and i think he will have the local pros come out again and not be able to figure it out again  Smiley

thanks for the help!  i will pass on your ideas
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Re: Continual Water Pressure Problem
Reply #6 - Jul 27th, 2009, 8:00pm
 
We have been putting all info together and working on it by assuming the behaviour of the system is all about trapped air.  So this morning we drained the camp and then released the torrent from the tank with a outlet open in each building.  We got back most of the pressure even in the camp kitchen.  Then we tried it again but released the torrent from the base of the hill and same results but without an explosion of air coming back up the pipe into the tank.  So if the past behaviour holds up then we should have full pressure within a week or month.  Do you think the rest of the pressure comes back because if there is trapped air then it is slowly absorbed into the pressured water?  Another thing we will try today is releasing the pressure by turning off the valve at the bottom of the hill for a small period and let any air settle and turn pressure back on?  so far acting like its trapped air seems to be working...
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Re: Continual Water Pressure Problem
Reply #7 - Jul 28th, 2009, 12:29am
 
The difference between your tests and reality is the full flood of pressure.

If you drain down and open the valve at the top of the hill slowly to allow it to replicate the tank filling you should get the problem.

By the same token if you allowed the tank to fill before reinstating the supply, you shouldn't get the problem.
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