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Blank canvas (kinda) (Read 11032 times)
Zambezi
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Blank canvas (kinda)
Aug 3rd, 2009, 6:28pm
 
We may be getting a house soon, fingers crossed.
Currently there there are night storage heaters for heating and an electric immersion heater for hot water.
We currently have NS heaters in our rental property, which I hate and refuse to have in any house I own. I will be removing the NS heaters as one of my first jobs, should we get the house!

There is a gas supply to the front of the property, which was fitted after the property was built but it is not connected to anything in the house.

So what are my options as far as a heating and hot water system? It is a 3 bed semi, with 1 bathroom, we don't currently have any kids and only occasionally have guests. I like to shower in the evening after getting back from work and SWMBO likes to shower in the mornings. Other than the shower/bath and basin in the bathroom it is just the kitchen sink that needs hot water.
I could fit a regular combi and rads but some of you gas fitters are not really fans of combis. Ideally we don't want to spend a fortune on heating water that is only used a couple of times a day.

There is an electric fire in the living room which we would like to change for a wood burner at some some stage too.

The garden is not big enough for ground source heat pumps etc. The idea is to do up and live in the house for a couple of years, then sell it, so we are not really looking for things that take 25 years to pay for themselves.

Answers on the back of a postcard...

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Headrush
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Re: Blank canvas (kinda)
Reply #1 - Aug 3rd, 2009, 7:54pm
 
If you're only staying for 2 years, the cheapest & easiest option is a combi, and it'll add value to the house.

Personally i prefer a hwc as it gives you a broader choice of shower options and you don't have to wait 3 weeks to fill a bath. Electric showers are awful and cost a fortune to run. Of course you can run a shower mixer from a combi, but they tend to run a bit hot and cold.
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Zambezi
Re: Blank canvas (kinda)
Reply #2 - Aug 3rd, 2009, 8:12pm
 
Thanx Headrush. I think when I have the house of my dreams I will fit a megaflow type arrangement for the HW but you are probably right, the combi is probably the most practical/economical solution for this situation.
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thescruff
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Re: Blank canvas (kinda)
Reply #3 - Aug 3rd, 2009, 8:25pm
 
Buy an broag Avanta 35 one of the best.
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Re: Blank canvas (kinda)
Reply #4 - Aug 3rd, 2009, 9:18pm
 
Although a combi will give a great shower, it is a good idea to consider an electric shower, having the combi for the bath, basin and kitchen.

If your boiler fails, which it will at some point, you still have means of a wash!

Personal prefference though.  Many love the type of shower a combi provides.
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Zambezi
Re: Blank canvas (kinda)
Reply #5 - Aug 4th, 2009, 2:14pm
 
Scruff do you think that a 28 would be ok, it is about £200 cheaper than the 35?
Requirements - Bath/shower, basin, sink and about 8-10 rads.
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Re: Blank canvas (kinda)
Reply #6 - Aug 4th, 2009, 2:48pm
 
Plenty for the heating, you get 11.5  Ltr/min instead of 14 Ltr/min, still plenty for everyday use.
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Zambezi
Re: Blank canvas (kinda)
Reply #7 - Aug 4th, 2009, 3:12pm
 
Thanks John, all I need now is the damn house!
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Re: Blank canvas (kinda)
Reply #8 - Aug 4th, 2009, 4:02pm
 
An Ark may be a better investment  Roll Eyes
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Re: Blank canvas (kinda)
Reply #9 - Aug 4th, 2009, 4:42pm
 
It is possible to reduce the heating load on the combies usually in the programming if it is far too large for your needs.  Does this offer any cost savings on gas Scruff?  I know mine is over sized for it's needs as I went for the larger one for the HW flow rate, and I am glad I did, as even the larger model is limited to opening two taps.  Infact, if you open the bath tap, the basin tap or kitchen tap litterally run dry.  Is this normal?

Vaillant EcoTec Plus 8 something.
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Zambezi
Re: Blank canvas (kinda)
Reply #10 - Aug 4th, 2009, 6:57pm
 
I was thinking of putting under floor heating in the bathroom (about 3 square meters) and in the kitchen (about 10 meters square). I have a little Devi mat (electric) left over from another job, so I could use that in the bathroom.
I am going to take up the screed in the living and dinning room (about 30 square meters) to fit insulation and wood flooring, so I could fit under floor heating here rather than rads? How does under floor heating compare to rads for boiler usage?
I don't really like rads because they tend to be boiling hot if you are within 2 feet of them but cold elsewhere, under-floor heating is a bit more even.
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Re: Blank canvas (kinda)
Reply #11 - Aug 4th, 2009, 7:04pm
 
Underfloor is better than rads by a long way.

All modern boiler have modulating gas valves so turn down to the required output automatically, some you can manually adjust as well.
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Re: Blank canvas (kinda)
Reply #12 - Aug 4th, 2009, 8:53pm
 
We installed UFH in our self build. It works very well but I reckon it's best suited to households where there is someone at home most days. If both husband and wife are at work I reckon rads would be a better choice.

I reckon mixing rads and UFH is probably ok for two cases..

* If you just want a warm floor in one room like a bathroom or
* if you want UFH downstairs and rads upstairs

I'm not entirely convinced having a few rooms with UFH and a few with rads scattered around the house is a good idea but others may dissagree. I think I'd want different timers and stats on those rooms to allow the different response times to be dialed in eg so you can arrange for the UFH to come on an hour before the rads and go off an hour or more before the rads. ..or perhaps to allow the UFH to be on 24/7 with set back but the rads remain off?
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Re: Blank canvas (kinda)
Reply #13 - Aug 4th, 2009, 9:19pm
 
It is common to have a stat and or time control (programmable stat) on each room with UF.

In all the new builds and refurbs we have been doing recently, UF is almost the norm - more so downstairs with rads up, but still do several with 100% UF.

It depends on the building construction as to the heat up time too.  UF in a screed does take longer, but not too long.  UF under a suspended timber with insulation below is surprisingly quick.

We have been using the OSMA kit for a while, re-branded under many other names too.  The prog-room stats are very good and easy to use.  You can also have a central touch screen control too to over ride the rooms control.  This is also accessible over the internet if you know how to set this up.  And it is not that costly either.
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Re: Blank canvas (kinda)
Reply #14 - Aug 4th, 2009, 9:24pm
 
Quote:
Answers on the back of a postcard...



Watering can in garden, Summer/autumn.....

extra sweaters in winter/spring!!!

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AS HONEST AND LOYAL AS THE TIMBER-WOLF. --VAR@*SH, DON'T YOU SWEAR AT ME!! PAL!!&&I DON'T SUFFER FROM INSANITY- I DAMNED WELL ENJOY IT!!!!!
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Zambezi
Re: Blank canvas (kinda)
Reply #15 - Aug 4th, 2009, 10:27pm
 
I quite like the idea of UF heating down stairs and rads up stairs. Would you plumb each room/area onto a different zone on the heating, which would then be individually controlled by room stats?
Where is a good place to look for the Osma gear Lec?
I may take one look at the price of the gear and decide to stick with rads, as it is an intermediate house but if it is not going to be silly money then it will be worth it.
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Re: Blank canvas (kinda)
Reply #16 - Aug 4th, 2009, 10:29pm
 
UFH - wooden floor - wood's a good insulator.

If you must go down the pesky combi route then you're welcome to borrow my pressure tester.
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