Ask The Trades - immerser timer on a 5A lighting circuit?

al77

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immerser timer on a 5A lighting circuit?
Sep 21^st, 2009, 7:41pm

Would like some help with a little project of mine. I have wired 3 lamps from a loop feed from an existing light fitting. the 3 lamps are controlled by a 1way sw....thats all good...howevvah....
i wish this part of the circuit to be on a timer ( for quite a few hours at a time ) so a dimrail timer sw is not the answer, nor the energy saving types which give you 10 mins or so.

I thought that instead, maybe a pluggable timer could be used instead. Is this possible.....??......for a 13A socket outlet, specifically for the function of the pluggable timer only, to be safely used on a 5A lighting circuit?

Any help would be very much appreciated!!!!

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« Last Edit: Sep 22^nd, 2009, 2:58pm by Al77 »

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Lectrician

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Re: 13A socket outlet on a 5A lighting circuit????????
Reply #1 - Sep 21^st, 2009, 8:35pm

Can't you just use an immersion heater timer?

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/SMTS900.html

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Timers_Index/index.html?source=adwords&kw...

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/89388/Electrical-Supplies/Timers/Mechanical-24-Hou...

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/92265/Electrical-Supplies/Timers/Digital-Weekly-Im...

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al77

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Re: 13A socket outlet on a 5A lighting circuit????????
Reply #2 - Sep 21^st, 2009, 9:05pm

Thanks L for your quick reply..

Never thought of that...sounds plausible though. would that just be a line neut and earth connection then. The timer will be placed just after the feed from existing light fitting (obviously) so would it just be a case of in and out to 1st lamp?

The reason I'd asked about the socket timer was because I have both a spare outlet and pluggable timer already...would that not be safe then??

Again, thanks.

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Lectrician Administrator Trade Member Author Offline Ask The Trades Posts: 8815 Total Thanks: 109 For This Post: 0 Braunton, North Devon United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: 13A socket outlet on a 5A lighting circuit???????? Reply #3 - Sep 21^st, 2009, 9:14pm A plug in timer is not ideal. An immersion timer has a Live & Neutral in and a Live & Neutral out, however, the neutrals are merely commoned internally, so effectively you have a Live In, Live Out and a Neutral connection.
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CWatters

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Re: 13A socket outlet on a 5A lighting circuit????????
Reply #4 - Sep 22^nd, 2009, 8:58am

Get a good quality make - I've had quite a few problems with a cheap one a similar project I was doing last year. It wasn't the output relay but the control buttons and slider switches that failed for some reason.

You can also get DIN rail mounted timers but perhaps no advantage..
http://www.dustonelectrical.co.uk/products/Industrial/Control+Gear/Din+Rail+Time...

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« Last Edit: Sep 22^nd, 2009, 8:59am by CWatters »

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al77

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Re: 13A socket outlet on a 5A lighting circuit????????
Reply #5 - Sep 22^nd, 2009, 1:52pm

Thanks again, thats been very helpful.

Forgive me, but I'm stil unsure if this is going to work L. £2o for a decent immers. timer, so I dont want to fork out unless Im pretty sure of a couple of things.

1. The position in the circuit,
will these connections work if doing a straight swap with the one way sw, bearing in mind th one way sw is fed from 1st lamp, giving you one sw feed to C, and one sw wire from L1....(and an unused Earth.)or...

will these connections work if I drop it in between the existing lamp (which was the last point in the existing circuit) and the 1st lamp.

2. The actual connections,
Dont suppose you have any links to wiring diagram?

3. Are you aware of immers timer being used on a lighting circuit?

Again, many thanks for you're assistance already L

Cheers

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al77 GDPR opt-out Total Thanks: 58 For This Post: 0	Re: 13A socket outlet on a 5A lighting circuit???????? Reply #6 - Sep 22^nd, 2009, 1:55pm Thanks to you too CW Dim rail is of no use...I just require part (the last 3 fittings) of the circuit on a timer. Thanks for the heads up on cheapos tho....can you reccommend a maker?
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CWatters

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Re: 13A socket outlet on a 5A lighting circuit????????
Reply #7 - Sep 23^rd, 2009, 8:16am

Quote:

Thanks again, thats been very helpful.

Forgive me, but I'm stil unsure if this is going to work L. £2o for a decent immers. timer, so I dont want to fork out unless Im pretty sure of a couple of things.

1. The position in the circuit,
will these connections work if doing a straight swap with the one way sw, bearing in mind th one way sw is fed from 1st lamp, giving you one sw feed to C, and one sw wire from L1....(and an unused Earth.)or...

Most timers will require a neutral but there are some that don't. They either have a battery inside or they bleed a little power through the load. Google found this one that looks fancy and also works as a regular dimmer... http://www.elkay.co.uk/product.asp?id=3&catid=2

Quote:

will these connections work if I drop it in between the existing lamp (which was the last point in the existing circuit) and the 1st lamp.

Probably not, but it depends what connection you have there.

Quote:

2. The actual connections,
Dont suppose you have any links to wiring diagram?

The one above is designed to replace a switch without a neutral. It will almost certainly come with instructions.

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CWatters

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Re: 13A socket outlet on a 5A lighting circuit????????
Reply #8 - Sep 23^rd, 2009, 8:20am

Quote:

Thanks to you too CW

Dim rail is of no use...I just require part (the last 3 fittings) of the circuit on a timer.

Can you expand on that? You mean you currently have four or more lamps on one switch and you want only the three furthest from the switch to be on a timer?

Sounds like you will need to break into the circuit to seperate them into two groups. Probably time to get an electrician in.

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al77

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Re: immerser timer on a 5A lighting circuit?
Reply #9 - Sep 23^rd, 2009, 9:05pm

Hello again CW

Can you expand on that? You mean you currently have four or more lamps on one switch and you want only the three furthest from the switch to be on a timer?

Sounds like you will need to break into the circuit to seperate them into two groups.

Its a simple domestic light circuit looped-in/loop-out through each rose...as opposed to switches being looped or junction boxes.

I have extended the existing circuit with 3 lamps operated by a 1 way sw....by taking a loop feed from the last point on existing.

The 1way sw is taken from new lamp 1 so has no neutral, just a sw feed and sw return back to lamp 1.

It is only the 3 new lamps i want controlled with the timer...not the full circuit.

I think al hold ma hands up...coz the immers sw seem a bit pricey...esp if its not guaranteed to work.

Manual operation it'll have to be methinks!
Appreciate your time tho bud.

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CWatters Super Member Offline "Daddy fick it" says James Posts: 5150 Total Thanks: 58 For This Post: 0 Gender:	Re: immerser timer on a 5A lighting circuit? Reply #10 - Sep 24^th, 2009, 7:46am In which case the one I posted above should be a straight swap for the existing switch. Live Switched, Live and earth. The only issue might be if the lamps are florescent or LED. If so you must check with the timer maker that it can be used with this type of lamp.
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sparky415 Trade Member Offline Its more complicated than I first thought Posts: 679 Total Thanks: 0 For This Post: 0 Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: immerser timer on a 5A lighting circuit? Reply #11 - Sep 24^th, 2009, 8:19pm Al77, Sorry Al but what are you trying to achieve? Would a PIR sensor not be the thing to use? (sounds like a bit of rewiring needed)
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Lectrician Administrator Trade Member Author Offline Ask The Trades Posts: 8815 Total Thanks: 109 For This Post: 0 Braunton, North Devon United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: immerser timer on a 5A lighting circuit? Reply #12 - Sep 24^th, 2009, 10:35pm I am guessing he his trying to provide time control to a couple lights
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sparky415 Trade Member Offline Its more complicated than I first thought Posts: 679 Total Thanks: 0 For This Post: 0 Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: immerser timer on a 5A lighting circuit? Reply #13 - Sep 24^th, 2009, 11:03pm !
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Re: 13A socket outlet on a 5A lighting circuit????????
Reply #14 - Sep 29^th, 2009, 11:52pm

CWatters wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2009, 8:58am:

Get a good quality make - I've had quite a few problems with a cheap one a similar project I was doing last year. It wasn't the output relay but the control buttons and slider switches that failed for some reason.

Was that Timeguard, by any chance? I had exactly the same problem with those. First timer the off/timed swich was faulty and the program buton was tricky on the second one. Angry

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CWatters Super Member Offline "Daddy fick it" says James Posts: 5150 Total Thanks: 58 For This Post: 0 Gender:	Re: immerser timer on a 5A lighting circuit? Reply #15 - Sep 30^th, 2009, 9:47am Yes was Timeguard as it happens. The slider switch seemed to be the problem in my case.
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LSpark Global Moderator Trade Member Author Offline Posts: 8069 Total Thanks: 3 For This Post: 0 London, UK United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: immerser timer on a 5A lighting circuit? Reply #16 - Sep 30^th, 2009, 8:32pm The only good thing about timegaurd is the 3-year garuntee, which you need because most of their stuff is sh!te.
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