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wireing up lights (Read 7446 times)
doug
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wireing up lights
Oct 28th, 2004, 9:29pm
 
hello could anyboby tell me if this is safe , i have wired up lights to shed as follows two 400watt lights at either side ,the live wire from the fuse box going to a waterproof lightswitch coming out of the lightswitch both live feeds to the lights the neutral from both lights going to the fuse box and the earth from one light via the lightswitch to the fuse box  the other straight to the fuse box is this ok or will i get zapped ??
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Re: wireing up lights
Reply #1 - Oct 28th, 2004, 9:48pm
 
Two 400w lights? You've nearly got a 1Kw electric fire burning there! Are these internal or external lights?

I don't personally like the sound of the earth being routed via the switch. The more junctions you've got in a cable the more potential points of failure you have., and you do not want an iffy earth connection. You've taken the neutrals straight back to the fusebox so why not take the earths back as well?

The other thought I have (but I'm sure this is actually okay) is that you have permanently connected the neutral thru from the fusebox to the lights, and switched only the live. That's okay because that's the way most lights are arranged, but perhaps it might have been better - or at least worth a thought - to switch both the live and neutral so that you can fully isolate the light fittings via the switch?

As these are in (or on) a shed I think an RCD would be a jolly good idea. Fuses ain't that brilliant at saving human sacrifices 'cos you need a few amps to flow, whereas you only need a few milliamps to get the RCD coming into play (and I understand that the death knell for a human body is no more than 25 milliamps).

Please note: I'm not a spark so be prepared for someone else to countermand my thoughts.

Andrew
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doug
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Re: wireing up lights
Reply #2 - Oct 28th, 2004, 10:02pm
 
they are internal big shed 70 foot long i have earthed the light switch as it has a point to place an earth wire  the switch is plastic so maybe it does not need one? to isolate the lights would the neutral come out the lightswitch connected to the live out wires to the lights ?
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Re: wireing up lights
Reply #3 - Oct 28th, 2004, 10:25pm
 
If the switch and its mounting has no conductive parts then the earth would most likely be superfluous (for the switch). Applying an earth to plastic isn't necessary.

As for neutral switching, you'd require a switch which had double poles which switched both live and neutral. If it was a bog standard light switch (of the sort you'd find in domestic premises) then it's highly unlikely it would be double-poled. That doesn't mean it isn't, it's just unlikely.

However, you refer to it as a waterproof switch so I doubt that it's a standard domestic light switch anyway. As it is waterproof does that mean it's mounted outside the building? If so then I would highly recommend you get some professional help with the installation because if it isn't done right and someone is using electrical switches standing in the rain there's potential for a disaster to happen.

At 70 foot long that's a big shed. Is it commercial premises? There's something called the "electricity at work" act I believe - have to admit I know nothing about it, but though I'm happy dealing with simple lighting issues on domestic properties I avoid commercial premises 'cos there's some real hefty legislation covering what can and can't be done.

Andrew
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LSpark
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Re: wireing up lights
Reply #4 - Oct 28th, 2004, 10:31pm
 
[quote author=HandyMac  link=1098995370/0#1 date=1098996533]I don't personally like the sound of the earth being routed via the switch. The more junctions you've got in a cable the more potential points of failure you have., and you do not want an iffy earth connection. You've taken the neutrals straight back to the fusebox so why not take the earths back as well? [/quote]

There could be nothing wrong with that arrangment, however doesnt sound normal admitedly, unless its single core cables or somthing.

Quote:
The other thought I have (but I'm sure this is actually okay) is that you have permanently connected the neutral thru from the fusebox to the lights, and switched only the live. That's okay because that's the way most lights are arranged, but perhaps it might have been better - or at least worth a thought - to switch both the live and neutral so that you can fully isolate the light fittings via the switch?


Why?

Quote:
they are internal big shed 70 foot long i have earthed the light switch as it has a point to place an earth wire  the switch is plastic so maybe it does not need one? to isolate the lights would the neutral come out the lightswitch connected to the live out wires to the lights ?


All earths must go back to the Consumer Unit/Fuse board to properly earth all the fittings, anything plastic wont need earthing, however any earths must all be connected together with terminal block or similar to ensure continuity of the earth.

To properly isolate the neutral and the live, you would need an isolator or double pole switch, fuses or circuit breakers should only be placed on the live conductor, hoever they shouldny be any need for this.

An RCD unit wouldnt go a miss on protecting all the socket outlets, and anything outside in damp conditions or similar onerous conditions.

Finnaly, do you know what sort of supply earthing arrangments you have, e.g. is the earth supplied by your incoming cable, are you on a farm or in a country location and have a earth spike or rod, which is a long copper rod or similar placed deep in the ground which supplies a source of earth?

Your arrangment sounds fine, but always remember the Neutural should never be switched or fused, except at the fuseboard or consumer unit, how you have it is OK.

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doug
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Re: wireing up lights
Reply #5 - Oct 28th, 2004, 10:58pm
 
thanks L SPARK
its a farm building the supply comes from another shed from new fuse box the ones that has trip swithes( RCD maybe) goes under ground to the shed into fuse box  i am puting lights in ,there was a new 3 phase supply put in recently so i think the earth should be ok ? i am using single core cable run through p v c pipes  it was the neutral i was unsure of the way i have it is ok ? coming from both lights straight into the block in the fuse box? the lightswitch is only waterproof cos one side of the shed is open and there is a possibility the rain may blow in if the wind is in the south
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sparkyjonny
Re: wireing up lights
Reply #6 - Oct 29th, 2004, 11:13am
 
Its good practice to take an earth to all accessories, including plastic switches, as you have done.
When LS said "but always remember the Neutural should never be switched or fused" he meant independantly of live, ie: switching neutral, not live.  Switching both in a double-pole switch is fine, even preferable.
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Re: wireing up lights
Reply #7 - Oct 29th, 2004, 7:11pm
 
[quote author=L.Spark  link=1098995370/0#4 date=1098999061]Why? [/quote]

No overwhelming reason at all. I viewed this as an outhouse of some description, perhaps open to some extent to the elements.

Changing 400w bulbs could involve human contact with the live/neutral connections. Some sort of fault on the neutral could be a problem.

But I don't class this as very likely and as I said originally, it's bound to be okay not switching the neutral. Just thought it might have been an idea to switch both was all.

Andrew
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Re: wireing up lights
Reply #8 - Oct 30th, 2004, 12:24am
 
Yep, it's a good suggestion, however alot of weatherproof fittings are still single pole, altho you can get double pole if you wish.
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Re: wireing up lights
Reply #9 - Oct 30th, 2004, 6:59am
 
I just had a thought about this situation.

The load being switched is 800w. I'm aware that some light switches are rated lower than that. Is this switch able to handle the load?

NB: I'm thinking specifically of dimmer switches with regard to restricted loading - I know this isn't a dimmer switch, but perhaps it does have a max switching load?

Andrew
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Re: wireing up lights
Reply #10 - Oct 30th, 2004, 9:59am
 
This is still only 3.5 amps.  Most switches are rated at 5 amps or above if I'm not mistaken?
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supersparky
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Re: wireing up lights
Reply #11 - Oct 30th, 2004, 10:37am
 
most switches are 6 or 10 amp though you can get 16 and 20

ss
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Re: wireing up lights
Reply #12 - Oct 30th, 2004, 8:20pm
 
Yep, as SS said, 5A or above, dimmers are a totaly different ball game.

6A = 1380Watts
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Re: wireing up lights
Reply #13 - Oct 31st, 2004, 1:21am
 
thanks for that ! the switch has 2 on off switches bought from city electral factors only has an in point and a out point on each switch i haven't got the neutral connected to any point in the switch is this ok?
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Re: wireing up lights
Reply #14 - Oct 31st, 2004, 1:17am
 
Yes thats fine.
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ban-all-sheds
Re: wireing up lights
Reply #15 - Nov 15th, 2004, 11:59am
 
[quote author=doug  link=1098995370/0#5 date=1099000739]its a farm building   [/quote]

You won't forget, will you, that as far as the wiring regs are concerned it is therefore a Special Installation, and that there are additional regs to consider....
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