Ask The Trades - moving consumer unit

borris Newbie Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 2 Total Thanks: 0 For This Post: 0	moving consumer unit Nov 18^th, 2004, 3:00pm Hi, can anyone tell me the best way to connect and extend the t+e cables from old unit about 3 feet to new position...............
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LSpark

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Re: moving consumer unit
Reply #1 - Nov 18^th, 2004, 4:02pm

[quote author=borris link=1100790006/0#0 date=1100790006]Hi, can anyone tell me the best way to connect and extend the t+e cables from old unit about 3 feet to new position...............
[/quote]

Hello Borris

Well it's a little unfortanate if you have to extend all of the cables, however one way would be to crimp the new cables onto the old ones, however the crimps would need to be enclosed and this may be a problem for you..

Is there really a need to move the board?, if so is there room for a small enclosure to house the connections?

Whats the reason for moving the board..?

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borris Newbie Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 2 Total Thanks: 0 For This Post: 0	Re: moving consumer unit Reply #2 - Nov 18^th, 2004, 4:07pm Have to move due to new doorway going in where the unit is now, so i need to extend and conseal any wires and enclosures
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The_Trician

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Re: moving consumer unit
Reply #3 - Nov 18^th, 2004, 5:30pm

Is there a floor directly above the new place for the CU which you can get under?

If so, get yourself a nice big plastic adaptable box from teh wholesalers, and I mean BIG,
Get some DIN rail and some 4.00mm clip-on terminals - as many as you need.

Fix the DIN rail into the box and clip on the terminals.

Use a M20 holesaw to cut entry holes in the sides of the box where you'll be routing the cables, and connect up.

Nice neat job - Sorted!
Crimps? Horrible things.
Do it properly.

TT

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sparkyjonny GDPR opt-out Total Thanks: 8 For This Post: 0	Re: moving consumer unit Reply #4 - Nov 18^th, 2004, 6:48pm TT, what do you mean by clip-on terminals?
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Lectrician Administrator Trade Member Author Offline Ask The Trades Posts: 8814 Total Thanks: 109 For This Post: 0 Braunton, North Devon United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: moving consumer unit Reply #5 - Nov 18^th, 2004, 7:37pm Din rail mount terminals. Use earth for earth connections, as these earth the din rail. Also, there are stop ends and dead ends available.
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sparkyjonny GDPR opt-out Total Thanks: 109 For This Post: 0	Re: moving consumer unit Reply #6 - Nov 18^th, 2004, 9:05pm Not come across those. Know of any manufacturers Lec?
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LSpark Global Moderator Trade Member Author Offline Posts: 8069 Total Thanks: 3 For This Post: 0 London, UK United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: moving consumer unit Reply #7 - Nov 18^th, 2004, 9:57pm Good plan TT, not sure seen clip on terminals for the boxes but sounds good, only ones I've seen were in 3ph DB boards that clip on
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The_Trician Trade Member Offline Posts: 7721 Total Thanks: 8 For This Post: 0 Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: moving consumer unit Reply #8 - Nov 18^th, 2004, 10:10pm WAGO, Klippon, many others. Ask at your wholesalers for DIN rail-mounted terminals. Like these - http://www.coltergroup.co.uk/homepage/phoenixcontact.htm TT
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LSpark Global Moderator Trade Member Author Offline Posts: 8069 Total Thanks: 3 For This Post: 0 London, UK United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: moving consumer unit Reply #9 - Nov 18^th, 2004, 10:14pm arhh, same thing �8)
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ban-all-sheds

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Re: moving consumer unit
Reply #10 - Nov 19^th, 2004, 12:59am

[quote author=L.Spark link=1100790006/0#7 date=1100815066]Good plan TT, not sure seen clip on terminals for the boxes but sounds good, only ones I've seen were in 3ph DB boards that clip on [/quote]
"Good plan TT"?

I've been suggesting that for some time...

http://80.87.131.172/forums/viewtopic.php?p=27889#27889

http://80.87.131.172/forums/viewtopic.php?p=27913#27913

http://80.87.131.172/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37830#37830

http://80.87.131.172/forums/viewtopic.php?p=59446#59446

PS - FFS - can't we end this stupid, petty feud over links to "the other place" now?

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« Last Edit: Nov 19^th, 2004, 1:03am by ban-all-sheds »

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ban-all-sheds GDPR opt-out Total Thanks: 3 For This Post: 0	Re: moving consumer unit Reply #11 - Nov 19^th, 2004, 1:05am [quote author=The_Trician link=1100790006/0#8 date=1100815858]WAGO, Klippon, many others. Ask at your wholesalers for DIN rail-mounted terminals. [/quote] They even sell 'em in B&Q... Not sure about Klippon though - aren't they G-rail rather than top hat? Entrelec have a good range.
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The_Trician Trade Member Offline Posts: 7721 Total Thanks: 8 For This Post: 0 Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: moving consumer unit Reply #12 - Nov 19^th, 2004, 1:48am Entrelec are about the best, but I couldn't remember the name! TT
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LSpark Global Moderator Trade Member Author Offline Posts: 8069 Total Thanks: 3 For This Post: 0 London, UK United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: moving consumer unit Reply #13 - Nov 19^th, 2004, 1:49am [quote author=ban-all-sheds link=1100790006/0#10 date=1100825945] "Good plan TT"? I've been suggesting that for some time... [/quote] Didn't know �??? Quote: PS - FFS - can't we end this stupid, petty feud over links to "the other place" now? don't think so, anyway nothing to do with me �
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sparkyjonny GDPR opt-out Total Thanks: 3 For This Post: 0	Re: moving consumer unit Reply #14 - Nov 19^th, 2004, 8:15am Thanks guys. The only advantage I can see in this case of crimping is the accessibility issue.
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supersparky Administrator Trade Member Author Offline Posts: 6097 Total Thanks: 3 For This Post: 0 Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: moving consumer unit Reply #15 - Nov 19^th, 2004, 10:08am [quote author=ban-all-sheds link=1100790006/0#10 date=1100825945] PS - FFS - can't we end this stupid, petty feud over links to "the other place" now? [/quote] as much as like to no. they still block links here despite offering different things. you will have to talk to them ive tryed and was ignored ss
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LSpark Global Moderator Trade Member Author Offline Posts: 8069 Total Thanks: 3 For This Post: 0 London, UK United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: moving consumer unit Reply #16 - Nov 19^th, 2004, 1:45pm [quote author=sparkyjonny link=1100790006/0#14 date=1100852114]Thanks guys. �The only advantage I can see in this case of crimping is the accessibility issue. [/quote] There isnt one, crimps don't need to be accesible
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plugwash Administrator Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 1383 Total Thanks: 0 For This Post: 0 Trade: Not Specified	Re: moving consumer unit Reply #17 - Nov 19^th, 2004, 1:46pm i know some have expressed concern about crimps on solid cable has anyone here ever considered soldering mains wiring?
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LSpark

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Re: moving consumer unit
Reply #18 - Nov 19^th, 2004, 1:47pm

[quote author=supersparky link=1100790006/15#15 date=1100858927]

as much as like to no.
they still block links here despite offering different things. you will have to talk to them ive tryed and was ignored

ss

[/quote]

yep, whats more you can't even put the new name as that gets blocked, even in the signature line, AFAIC they s�ck Roll Eyes

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Re: moving consumer unit
Reply #19 - Nov 19^th, 2004, 1:51pm

[quote author=plugwash link=1100790006/15#17 date=1100872002]i know some have expressed concern about crimps on solid cable

has anyone here ever considered soldering mains wiring?
[/quote]

No, personaly I think it's a poor method and takes more time, however it's allowed if done correctly, but then theres other issues to take account of � Roll Eyes

Crimps are a much better method than soldered joints, certainly in this case �

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« Last Edit: Nov 19^th, 2004, 1:52pm by LSpark »

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ban-all-sheds GDPR opt-out Total Thanks: 3 For This Post: 0	Re: moving consumer unit Reply #20 - Nov 19^th, 2004, 4:28pm [quote author=The_Trician link=1100790006/0#12 date=1100828917]Entrelec are about the best, but I couldn't remember the name! TT [/quote] Erico ( http://www.erico.com ) have some nice looking stuff, but I've never used it. Their distribution blocks look particularly handy:
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sparkyjonny GDPR opt-out Total Thanks: 3 For This Post: 0	Re: moving consumer unit Reply #21 - Nov 19^th, 2004, 7:25pm [quote author=L.Spark link=1100790006/15#16 date=1100871906] There isnt one, crimps don't need to be accesible � [/quote] That's exactly what I meant, and a reason why crimps may be used over DIN-mount terminals!
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rabbit_rabbit GDPR opt-out Total Thanks: 3 For This Post: 0	Re: moving consumer unit Reply #22 - Nov 19^th, 2004, 8:36pm I like TT's approach - very sturdy, methodical and neat (shame he dont want to get registered coz he is a good sparky). Mind you I do own up to having crimpmd to extend cables but within CU's and never ever had one fail and as had been pointed out not subject to inspection whereas TT's nice solution is. RR
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rabbit_rabbit GDPR opt-out Total Thanks: 3 For This Post: 0	Re: moving consumer unit Reply #23 - Nov 19^th, 2004, 8:38pm Probably a greater problem for our friend Borris is the issue of the fact that he can, probably, now only be able to get new colour code cables....mixing with old colours.... RR
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Re: moving consumer unit
Reply #24 - Nov 20^th, 2004, 12:07am

[quote author=rabbit_rabbit link=1100790006/15#22 date=1100896589](shame he dont want to get registered coz he is a good sparky). [/quote]

Yep and let TT decide what he wants to do in his own time, bl00dy part p has too much word space � Roll Eyes

Quote:

That's exactly what I meant, and a reason why crimps may be used over DIN-mount terminals!

Yea well the din idea was another alternative to the crimps, and probably easiest way to comply

Din-rail mounted terminals are still nice tho

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« Last Edit: Nov 20^th, 2004, 12:08am by LSpark »

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The_Trician

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Re: moving consumer unit
Reply #25 - Nov 20^th, 2004, 11:15am

Who says a box with DINs inside has to be accessable?

Get it boarded over!!

Only joking - I do try to be a good sparky!

Its just that having worked in Industry where it is vital that connections don't fail, I hate crimped joints. We used to fit em as a tempory measure to get a machine producing again, but they'd be ripped out the following weekend and the job would be either 'boxed' as above, or rewired altogether. Plus, you can add/alter stuff more easily if you have a nice big box with terminals to play with.

If I had a mad rush of blood to the head and decided to rewire my place tomorrow, I'd have enough Junction boxes to last me a lifetime, what with all the adding on I've done over the years!

I'm not keen on junction boxes but my-oh-my have they saved the day on more occasions than I care to remember.

TT

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rabbit_rabbit

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Re: moving consumer unit
Reply #26 - Nov 20^th, 2004, 1:32pm

When screw junctions have to be 'accessible' surely the mere fact one has to lift carpets and floorboards to gain access still means they are 'accessible'. Buring them in concrete aint!

Its interesting TT - about crimps - I used to work at ESA for space vehicles we were only allowed to use two type of links - crimps and connectors (all gold plated, I mean the lot) and connectors were only allowed to be made ONCE, just prior to launch, if anything went wrong and the connector had to be withdrawn then the entire connector assemplies had to be changed.

Soldering was a no-no of course coz junction will out-gas so 'pcb' assemblies were welded joints. I have also used crimps on military systems (tanks etc) - because it is claimed - they are a much better form of junction. Mind you sample tests were taken and bloody great weights were hung off crimped junctions.

I agree they look naff and weak but ......

RR

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LSpark Global Moderator Trade Member Author Offline Posts: 8069 Total Thanks: 3 For This Post: 0 London, UK United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: moving consumer unit Reply #27 - Nov 20^th, 2004, 1:38pm [quote author=The_Trician link=1100790006/15#25 date=1100949359]Only joking - I do try to be a good sparky! [/quote] Was getting worried for a minute
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The_Trician Trade Member Offline Posts: 7721 Total Thanks: 8 For This Post: 0 Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: moving consumer unit Reply #28 - Nov 20^th, 2004, 2:17pm I'm interested in this Ray, we used crimps for tempory jobs, especially on working machinary because of fatigue failure due to vibration. Love to see how you made the joints so sound that a 52 ton Chieften bowling over the Rhineland on exercise at 40mph wouldn't break em! Must have been bloody good crimps! TT
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plugwash Administrator Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 1383 Total Thanks: 0 For This Post: 0 Trade: Not Specified	Re: moving consumer unit Reply #29 - Nov 20^th, 2004, 2:22pm i heared from someone who uded to be in the navy that they tested big crimpers (hydralically driven for huge cables) by crimping a connecgtor onto a peice of cable then cutting the joint in half if there was ANY crack between the connector and the cable then the tool was considered faulty and sent to be recalibrated
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Re: moving consumer unit
Reply #30 - Nov 20^th, 2004, 9:29pm

[quote author=The_Trician link=1100790006/15#28 date=1100960230]Love to see how you made the joints so sound that a 52 ton Chieften bowling over the Rhineland on exercise at 40mph wouldn't break em!

Must have been bloody good crimps!

TT [/quote]

TT, They use large bolt trough crimps under the runway strips and taxiways on the airport, anything other than crimps would come apart a little too soon with the weight of a jumbo jet landing at high speed

I think they inspect the crimps every so often tho to check that none have come loose, but don't think they have any problems �8)

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The_Trician

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Re: moving consumer unit
Reply #31 - Nov 21^st, 2004, 12:43am

Ah right - eyelug to eyelug with bolts - that makes sense. I was thinking more about thru', inline, or butt connectors, which are crimped to each end of a cable.

This type used to break with monotonous regularity where I used to work.

The larger ones were ok - 70mm upwards and using a hydraulic foot-pedal-operated crimper, or with a small pump motor depending on the size to be crimped, but the red/yellow/blue plastic-insulated ones used in control wiring were hopeless.

TT

TT

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LSpark Global Moderator Trade Member Author Offline Posts: 8069 Total Thanks: 3 For This Post: 0 London, UK United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: moving consumer unit Reply #32 - Nov 21^st, 2004, 12:46am Yep TT, this particular thing I was thinking of was for a 25mm earth line, they used larger eye crimps and then made a fold in the copper to fit, effectively they had a protective ring, therefore if any lug came un-done the whole air strip wouldn�t loose its earth
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Beanzy GDPR opt-out Total Thanks: 3 For This Post: 0	Re: moving consumer unit Reply #33 - Nov 25^th, 2004, 8:07pm Bigger stuff tends to get done with hydraulic crimpers.... They scare the shite out of me. Just like being near a steel press in action... the thoughts of my fingers anywhere near one of those is spooky... me no like... but like too.
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Re: moving consumer unit
Reply #34 - Nov 25^th, 2004, 8:36pm

Sry TT about the delay - FMBT (the one that replaced the Chieftan, which I driven many times nice tank that was).

Used to hang squaddies off each junction to make sure it was sound! No more seriously all the cables were stranded type for starters. I am not joking some were very small cabls and you could hang the tank off one of these crimped junctions and the cable would snap before the crimp went. I mean REALLY strong.

I crimp main earth bonds (16 mm csa) on TN-S supplies and swing on it to make sure its sound. Never had one give way yet.

RR

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