Ask The Trades - Part P - when is a kitchen not a kitchen

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Ask The Trades › DIY Forum › Electrical Questions › Part P - when is a kitchen not a kitchen

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Part P - when is a kitchen not a kitchen (Read 12835 times)

londonman Trade Member Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 1697 Total Thanks: 13 For This Post: 0 Malvern United Kingdom Trade: Cabinet Maker	Part P - when is a kitchen not a kitchen Feb 18^th, 2005, 3:43pm Three bed semi - clearly there is a separate room identifiable as a kitchen. But what about a studio flat? One large room with a kitchen worktop and cooker down one end. Rest of the room is living accomodation and a bed. Could one argue that the room is not a kitchen?
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Beanzy

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Re: Part P - when is a kitchen not a kitchen
Reply #1 - Feb 18^th, 2005, 5:07pm

Alas not. It's a kitchen and a bedroom and a sitting room. Extra functions don't negate the other functions.
ie;if it walks like a duck etc. sorry & the real problem is the extra cost will be huge by comparison with the income on the same work in a larger installation. From an owner point of view it sucks big time.

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HandyJon

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Re: Part P - when is a kitchen not a kitchen
Reply #2 - Feb 18^th, 2005, 8:48pm

In open plan type flats/houses, the kitchen is the area around the sink/cooker. I think that there is a defined number of metres that demarcates the area, but I haven't got that number to hand. Something like 3m from some point.

Added....
Found this info on the IEE forums.

"Kitchen is defined in the Building Regulations as 'a room or part of a room which contains a sink and food preparation facilities'.

As a guide only, in open plan areas the zone of a kitchen may be considered to extend from the edge of the sink to a distance of 3m or to a nearer dividing wall." from the The December 2004 amendment to approved document P from http://www.iee.org/Forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=205&threadid=4553&enterthr...

« Last Edit: Feb 18^th, 2005, 9:13pm by HandyJon »

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JerryD GDPR opt-out Total Thanks: 13 For This Post: 0	Re: Part P - when is a kitchen not a kitchen Reply #3 - Feb 18^th, 2005, 9:03pm I'm surprised there aren't zones, similar to a bathroom, this would at least clear up any confusion as many kitchens nowadays are quite big as they incorporate a breakfast area too.
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londonman Trade Member Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 1697 Total Thanks: 13 For This Post: 0 Malvern United Kingdom Trade: Cabinet Maker	Re: Part P - when is a kitchen not a kitchen Reply #4 - Feb 19^th, 2005, 12:45pm So does this mean that if, for example, just a cooker needs replacing then it comes under Part P ?
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JerryD GDPR opt-out Total Thanks: 13 For This Post: 0	Re: Part P - when is a kitchen not a kitchen Reply #5 - Feb 19^th, 2005, 3:37pm A cooker is not really part of the fixed wiring so does not come under part p
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LSpark Global Moderator Trade Member Author Offline Posts: 8069 Total Thanks: 3 For This Post: 0 London, UK United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: Part P - when is a kitchen not a kitchen Reply #6 - Feb 19^th, 2005, 5:18pm The fixed wiring only goes up to the point of the fused-connection-unit, where the cooker or appliance is connected via flex..
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Stoday GDPR opt-out Total Thanks: 3 For This Post: 0	Re: Part P - when is a kitchen not a kitchen Reply #7 - Feb 21^st, 2005, 2:25am Part P includes fixed electrical equipment. Here's the definition of "electrical installation" in the building regulations: "electrical installation" means fixed electrical cables or fixed electrical equipment located on the consumer's side of the electricity supply meter
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LSpark Global Moderator Trade Member Author Offline Posts: 8069 Total Thanks: 3 For This Post: 0 London, UK United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: Part P - when is a kitchen not a kitchen Reply #8 - Feb 21^st, 2005, 2:46am What constitutes "fixed electrical equipment" Stoday?
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Chaddy GDPR opt-out Total Thanks: 3 For This Post: 0	Re: Part P - when is a kitchen not a kitchen Reply #9 - Feb 21^st, 2005, 6:49pm Now isn't this what makes part p a pile of sh*t!! It can be interpreted in so many ways by so many people
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LSpark Global Moderator Trade Member Author Offline Posts: 8069 Total Thanks: 3 For This Post: 0 London, UK United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: Part P - when is a kitchen not a kitchen Reply #10 - Feb 22^nd, 2005, 1:13am haha , would be nice if that was the only bad thing about it Chaddy
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londonman Trade Member Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 1697 Total Thanks: 13 For This Post: 0 Malvern United Kingdom Trade: Cabinet Maker	Re: Part P - when is a kitchen not a kitchen Reply #11 - Feb 24^th, 2005, 5:03pm Thought I'd go to the horses mouth and sent an email to the ODPM asking for them to clarify what they mean by 'fixed electrical equipment'. Will wait with bated breath.
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londonman

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Re: Part P - when is a kitchen not a kitchen
Reply #12 - Mar 1^st, 2005, 10:05am

Still no reply..surprise, surprise.

So I looked up the Brown book aka 16th edition.

Definition of Fixed Equipment...Equipment designed to be fastened to a support or otherwise secured in a specific location.

So a built-in cooker is 'fixed equipment' and so should be included under part P. A standalone cooker is not.

So..replacing a built-in cooker...not notifiable

Replacing a standalone cooker with a built-in cooker....that is notifiable!

And notice that the definition says 'designed to be fastened' so we can't get away with not screwing in the built-in cooker!

The pedant in me would also argue that ceiling roses are also fixed since you screw them to the ceiling.

« Last Edit: Mar 1^st, 2005, 10:06am by londonman »

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LSpark

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Re: Part P - when is a kitchen not a kitchen
Reply #13 - Mar 1^st, 2005, 10:25am

I think you're getting a bit confused now, all the same light point's and socket's are all part of the fixed installation, doesn't mean however that you need to notify BC when adding a light point so long as it's not in a kitchen, I think you will find all cooker's will need to be inspected as they are in a food preperation area e.g. kitchen Roll Eyes

« Last Edit: Mar 1^st, 2005, 10:26am by LSpark »

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londonman Trade Member Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 1697 Total Thanks: 13 For This Post: 0 Malvern United Kingdom Trade: Cabinet Maker	Re: Part P - when is a kitchen not a kitchen Reply #14 - Mar 1^st, 2005, 5:30pm L.Spark...does that mean 'replacement' cookers as well need inspecting? Built-in and/or free standing?
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Re: Part P - when is a kitchen not a kitchen
Reply #15 - Mar 1^st, 2005, 7:50pm

The cooker is an appliance - nowt to do with Part P1ss.
You can connect a cooker/washing machine/spin dryer-whatever - even an immersion heater.
It is only the fixed wiring from the circuit breaker in the consumer unit to the cooker connection unit which comes under Part P1ss, and only then if you are daft enough to tell em about it.

TT

Thats the trouble with a colostomy - you can never find the shoes to match the bag.......

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londonman

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Re: Part P - when is a kitchen not a kitchen
Reply #16 - Mar 1^st, 2005, 10:54pm

I share your sentiments but the lawyer in me says that Part P states that 'fixed equipment' is covered and the IEE definition is

Definition of Fixed Equipment...Equipment designed to be fastened to a support or otherwise secured in a specific location

so since a built-in cooker is secured in a specific location......???

« Last Edit: Mar 1^st, 2005, 10:54pm by londonman »

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