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Saw blades (Read 10503 times)
Raptor
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Saw blades
Dec 22nd, 2005, 12:27am
 
I have a Bosch 80 tooth blade which is currently in my mitre saw.This was one half of one of the twin packs you may have seen advertised lately.Now i think these blades have negative rake?The blade does an excellent job in my mitre saw but can i use it in my table saw as it is the correct size and bore or will this negative rake business make that a no no.I was thinking it would have been allright for mdf and ply.
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TIMBA-WOLF
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Re: Saw blades
Reply #1 - Dec 22nd, 2005, 1:04am
 
Hi there dear chap!, if the blade is of the same diametre, bore size, and the kerf does not interfer with the slot the blade runs through on your table saw, then there should be no problems what so ever,
the fact that it runs neg teeth, well that is down to personal choice only!!,

i use all different blades with varying teeth amounts and types of cut upon the teeth, each for a particular material in my workshop,  one thing i have managed to do, is keep most of my machines to the same size of blade/bore so as to be able to swap blades from the mitre saw, to saw bench, to radial arm saw etc, thus saving in the long term with not having to buy the same blade configuration for each machine!! just one lot of blades does them all!!
hope this helps!
regards matt

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AS HONEST AND LOYAL AS THE TIMBER-WOLF. --VAR@*SH, DON'T YOU SWEAR AT ME!! PAL!!&&I DON'T SUFFER FROM INSANITY- I DAMNED WELL ENJOY IT!!!!!
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Raptor
Re: Saw blades
Reply #2 - Dec 22nd, 2005, 1:13am
 
Thanks a lot ,still not sure what this negative rake means though.
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jasonB
Re: Saw blades
Reply #3 - Dec 22nd, 2005, 7:53am
 
Wolf, would you use a positive rake blade in your mitresaw ??? as the risk of the blade grabbing would be increased. Likewise would a negative rake blade in a TS tend to push the wood up off the table.

It's not one I have come accross before, any other thoughts?

Raptor, negative rake is where the cutting edge of the blade slopes backwards, like using a hand saw back to front. Compare positive with positive

Jason
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Re: Saw blades
Reply #4 - Dec 22nd, 2005, 9:12am
 
In answer to your Q's JB, then for the first one, YES!, and in a TS YES!!! it  depends upon the Axial to Bore axis! of your blade, as well as the wedge angle..
there are so many formats of blade teeth, from ATB+, ATB- ,TFT+.TFT-,FT+,FT- and this is with out the addition of the wedge angle and angle to bore axis allowances.. the scope is almost endless! and there is also the Anit-kick back technology on most blades these days....

as for the material being cut, if the operator of the machine be it a radial arm saw, mitre saw or a saw bench/table saw, if the material is snatched then 1) the operater has not understood the materials grain patten, (which can close up around the blade, hence the introduction of the riving knife to saw tables) or the fact the material is moist/damp..... 2) used the required hold downs/clamps  or the required down ward as well as the forward pressure required for the particular machine! especialy relevent on a saw table/bench saw!
(source:- E.Crowley)

as for negative or positive rake, a positive rake will take a bigger Bite from the material where as the negative rake, will take smaller, and slower cuts from the material...
(source:- E.Crowley)

the people who supply me with my blades now days are these guys http://www.crowleysaws.com/Crowley/crowley%20saws.htm... and they seriously know what they are doing in terms of manufacturing saw blades, and most of the above info comes from their very comprehensive brochures!!! have even managed to cut sheet ally on my table saw!!!!! now that is not fun!! scary!! dude!!

sorry to disagree with you JB dear chap, but i believe i was taught different ways.. but hey ho! still i believe and trust your judgement!!
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JerryD
Re: Saw blades
Reply #5 - Dec 22nd, 2005, 12:54pm
 
Well my understanding of pos/neg rake blades is as follows:

Negative rake is used in mitre saws as this tries to make the timber push into the saw fence which is vertical to the blade.  A positive rake blade used in a mitre saw will try to lift the timber - very dangerous.

Positive rake blades are used in hand-held circular saws as these blades try to lift the timber into the saws base plate, which is good.  A negative rake blade used in a circular saw would try to make the timber push forward so pushing the saw backwards - very dangerous.
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« Last Edit: Dec 22nd, 2005, 1:01pm by JerryD »  
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woodsmith
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Re: Saw blades
Reply #6 - Dec 22nd, 2005, 12:59pm
 
I've been using a negative rack blade in the table saw to cut man made boards, it gives a very good finish but as you say Wolf it does tend to push the material up. Its just something to be aware of.

I know triple chip is the usual choice for laminate etc and I normally use one but we have to try new things.

As for using the 80 tooth the only other point I could add is to ensure that the riving knife is slightly thinner than  the kerf of the blade.

Keith
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Scrit
Re: Saw blades
Reply #7 - Dec 23rd, 2005, 12:38pm
 
[quote author=woodsmith  link=1135211238/0#6 date=1135256391]I know triple chip is the usual choice for laminate etc and I normally use one but we have to try new things. [/quote]
I believe that the worktop fabricators use negative rake on panel/postforming saws to reduce edge chip-out, however they always clamp their work to the sliding table carraige. For that type of work there some saw makers are offering what is termed "bombastic grind" - not seen one yet as I use a panel saw with a scorer, but it sounds interesting.

In general, though, I'd agree with the negative rake only on chop/radial arm/crosscut saws with positive rake on upcut/table/portable circular saws - that way the work has a much reduced tendency to climb of the table of the machine in cut, in fact it will be pushed down onto the bed/fence of the saw. I can see the potential attraction of using a negative rake blade for cutting MFC (melamine faced chipboard) or plywood in that there is likely to be a more gradual exit of the blade from the material and thus reduced chipping out, but I feel that comes at the cost of increased operator risk.

So in other words - if you use a negative rake tooth blade on upcut/table/portable circular saws OR positive rake on chop/radial arm/crosscut saws take a lot more care and if possible clamp the work down.

Scrit
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Re: Saw blades
Reply #8 - Dec 23rd, 2005, 8:45pm
 
"bombastic grind" the mind boggles Roll Eyes Shocked
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