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Building a Porch (Read 15543 times)
AndrewR
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Building a Porch
May 5th, 2009, 2:44pm
 
Can anyone give me directions on either a book or a webpage that gives plans for building a wooden porch. I have a basic idea of what to do (just an elongated cube attached to my house across the doorway with a roof on top and a door in one side), but it is the anchoring to foundation/footings that I would like a bit of extra advice on, plus the jointing types that would be best for the wood around the door area so that it retains its strength.
I don't want a UPVC porch because the quotes I've had have been too expensive, plus I don't need double glazing. I just want something that will be waterproof so I can leave my muddy boots outside. I've asked some local carpenters but they say that they don't do jobs such as this! Maybe this old skill has died out? Anyway, I also wouldn't mind having a go at it myself, but I can't find any plans to help me. Can anyone help?
Thank you.
Andrew
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Re: Building a Porch
Reply #1 - May 5th, 2009, 4:45pm
 
firstly, you should talk to your local planning dept, as around here in Kent, if it goes above a certain height, and is of a certain volume, planning needs to be sorted out for it!!!

once that is clarified, i am sure one of us timber fella's can advise better!!!especially with a few dimensions and wants put forward!!
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Re: Building a Porch
Reply #2 - May 6th, 2009, 8:23am
 
I'm only a self builder but...

A small porch on the front can be built under Permitted Development Rights if it meets the rules here. Otherwise PP is required..

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/genpub/en/1115315235275.html

You shouldn't need Building Control Approval unless planning on removing the existing front door.

Try Joiners as well as carpenters. Some advertise in Yellow Pages as also doing small building work.

On top of the foundations lay brick plinth walls a (few courses) with a DPC to raise the timber frame out of the damp. Screw the frame down into this.
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Re: Building a Porch
Reply #3 - May 6th, 2009, 9:20am
 
oh CW!!! you believe a gov website that reckons one brush does all!!

each area has their own specific rules regards to light, area/volume , height , STYLE etc.. the gov rules are just a BASE to work from.... for each council


it is easy to get caught out, and an expensive mistake to make...
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AndrewR
Re: Building a Porch
Reply #4 - May 6th, 2009, 9:31am
 
Thanks for the advice so far.
On the issue of planning, I've already been told by the council that it won't need planning permission.
Andrew
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Re: Building a Porch
Reply #5 - May 6th, 2009, 10:46am
 
Flow - I agree it's true they do have their own views on the things you mention BUT these are only relevant if PP is required. The info on that gov site is based on the wording of the "The Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (Amendment) (No. 2) (England) Order 2008". If you come within the terms of that Act there no need to involve the planners or obtain planning permission.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2008/uksi_20082362_en_1

The relevant section of the act states:

Quote:
Class D

Permitted development
D. The erection or construction of a porch outside any external door of a dwellinghouse.

Development not permitted
D.1 Development is not permitted by Class D if—

(a) the ground area (measured externally) of the structure would exceed 3 square metres;
(b) any part of the structure would be more than 3 metres above ground level; or
(c) any part of the structure would be within 2 metres of any boundary of the curtilage of the dwellinghouse with a highway.


There are some exceptions though: For example in a conservation area or national park where PDR are restricted or if PDR were removed as part of a previous planning application. A few councils have removed PDR in certain areas but generally these are all conservation areas. A quick call to the council would tell you if PDR were different in your area.

If you want to cover your backside you could do two things:

1) Ask the planners to confirm that your proposed building work would be within your PDR before you start. Some councils have a process and charge for this.

and/or

2) Apply for a Certificate of Lawfulness after it's built.
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Re: Building a Porch
Reply #6 - May 6th, 2009, 11:09am
 
Quote:
1) Ask the planners to confirm that your proposed building work would be within your PDR before you start. Some councils have a process and charge for this.


i believe that is what i said originally...

but ........
Quote:
"The Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (Amendment) (No. 2) (England) Order 2008".


i think this is the act that states you do not need planning permission for an attic development, providing it is below facia/gutter level!!!

Pill-ocks!!!
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Re: Building a Porch
Reply #7 - May 6th, 2009, 11:14am
 
It is about covering your ass, which is why I thought I'd let Cwatters come in with a link for pp before adding my four-pennorth. One of the problems (if not THE problem) with advising at a distance is that you have always to be careful not to assume too much.

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Re: Building a Porch
Reply #8 - May 6th, 2009, 12:11pm
 
Sorry about the gap in transmission, a Skype call came in from a mate that I had to answer.

From the way you describe your needs Andrew, it sounds as if the most basic form of porch would do you - and without a single joint, too.

Obviously a dwarf wall would give the best 'foundation' for the rest of it, but it won't be necessary to go the whole hog and provide foundations for that wall, just tie it back to the house with ties and, if you've got a concrete path outside already, just lay the bricks directly onto that. The footprint of the porch is up to you.

Fix a wall plate along the top of the dwarf wall. Mark off the height of the porch eaves. Screw (use conscrews throughout) vertical posts into the brickwork to this height. Measure the size of the square thus created and make a wooden square frame with the same outside dimensions as the dwarf wall. Fix vertical posts to the ends of the dwarf wall to create the door frame to the height of the eaves (and if you've 'turned the corner' fix posts to these corners using brackets). Fix that square framework onto these posts by just screwing through, fixing the rear of that frame back to the house. As a belts and braces measure, check for squareness across the diagonals and fix temporary cross pieces from each rear corner to the centre of the front horizontal piece. If you want a lean-to type roof then just follow your diy instincts, aiming for an angle of about 40 degrees, but one which looks right according to the 'depth' of the porch.

If you want an apex roof, cut a ridge board equal to the depth of the porch plus about 2 or 3 inches (if you're gonna tile it, then to save assing about make the ridge board equal to an equal number of tile widths) to give you some weather clearance. Mark off the overall height to the top of the intended ridge height (and mark its centre line) and measure from there down to the outside edge of the top wall plate, adding about six inches to give you a good throw off for the rain (unless you're guttering it) at the eaves. This will give you the length of the joists. Cut the joists and hold one in place against the back wall aligned with the marks and mark off the angle cut on the joist, which will be the same both ends. Transfer that angle to all the other joists.

Ideally you should birdsmouth the joists onto the wall plate and you can get its outline by sitting an offcut of the section you used for the top frame on top of the top frame and holding the joist parallel with the mark on the wall and the edge of the top frame so that the offcut, when pushed against the joist, gives you about an inch 'penetration' into the side of the joist. Mark that cut, cut it out and use it to mark off all the other joists. (You will have needed to move those bracing pieces to locate the joist against the wall.)

If you now position the joists and screw through the birdsmouth into the top frame (again using those incredibly powerful conscrews), fixing the back and front joist first, you can push the ridge board up between the joists where it will be held in place by friction. Screw through the joists fixing them to the ridge board. Repeat for all all other joists. Replace that temporary bracing with more permanent sections, which will be hidden when you fix the 'ceiling' in place and board in the front of the porch roof.

You've now got your basic framework up. Just the door, the walls and the roof to sort. (Me? I'm going for a coffee and a sit down. I am supposed to be on holiday, after all.)
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AndrewR
Re: Building a Porch
Reply #9 - May 6th, 2009, 3:06pm
 
Firstly, thank you for taking the time to describe this for me.
You are right that "the most basic form of porch" is what I need, and with your description I think I can now build it.
I have read through your text and I can follow everything except one term. This is "wall plate". Will you please describe what you mean by this? Is it a special metal fixing? And, I am confused because by its name I would imagine that it is for fixing to a wall (vertically), but you describe that it should be fixed "along the top of the dwarf wall" therefore I expect that it lies horizontally.
Can you please explain in layman's terms?
Thank you,
Andrew
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Re: Building a Porch
Reply #10 - May 7th, 2009, 9:47am
 
It's actually the length of timber that sits on top of the brickwork of a house, to which the roof joists fix. In this instance it's the (horizontal) framework that sits on top of the vertical posts - the ones fixed directly to the wall, the ones at each of the front corners and the ones forming the doorway.

Once you've got the basic frame up then use flooring t&g to board the 'ceiling', which will make the whole of that frame rock solid. I'd also t&g board the interior walls. Depending on the look you want, you could then use either ship-lap or waney-edge board (from a saw mill) to clad the exterior.

Remember at all stages to keep checking your diagonals to ensure squareness, especially for the doorway, which you will of course make to a size that will take a standard door!!

Also bear in mind, when deciding on the height of the roof (whether lean-to or apex), that you'll need to let in the flashing into the brickwork. And whilst considering the roof, if you have a lean-to you will need to gutter it if you want to keep the wife off your case.

And use pressure-treated timber.

The 'conscrews' (they're known by a number of names) can be bought cheapest at upvc suppliers (they're pretty much universally used for fitting upvc windows because they screw directly into the brick without a plug) and each box comes with the special bit for your driver. Drill an 8mm clearance hole in the section through which you're passing and GO EASY 'cos they'll dig in like you wouldn't believe. Buy a box of 80mm and 125mm.

You'll need an SDS for the brick fixing, but you should have one as part of your standard tool kit anyway. If you only want one for this job then I noticed yesterday that Focus are doing one for something silly like forty quid. You'll need to drill a pilot hole into the BRICKWORK (through the 8mm clearance hole) of 6.5mm and go a little deeper than the length of the screw to stop binding.
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AndrewR
Re: Building a Porch
Reply #11 - May 7th, 2009, 10:19am
 
Thank you.
I understand now, and I'm very grateful for your advice. I'll certainly now feel confident to do the job.
There is one further thing that comes from what you have said about the "wall plate" that will sit on the dwarf wall. I was thinking of putting a sill in (either buying some pre-shaped timber if I can get it or else making one by routing in a drip groove to some standard pieces of wood) and fixing this in with mitre joints to stop water running down the outside of the dwarf wall. Firstly in your opinion do you think that this is necessary with such a small porch, but secondly (and most importantly based on your description) if I do incorporate an exterior sill, would you advice fixing it as a seperate piece to the wall plate or should/could the sill and wall plate be the same piece of wood?
Thanks again,
Andrew
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Re: Building a Porch
Reply #12 - May 7th, 2009, 1:09pm
 
Separate. If it does rot in twenty years time you can just replace the nosing. It's what I do to every window I make, as a favour to the guy who has the job in fifty or a hundred years time replacing the oak cills on my windows.

If you decide to glaze the sides, then remember to use toughened glass.

If you can use a router then all of this is well within your capabilities.

Oh, and plant on the rebates for the door after you've fitted the threshold, having hung the door first so that you can align everything up with it, rather than the other way round. Makes life simple!

Good luck.
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« Last Edit: May 7th, 2009, 1:13pm by Joiner »  
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Re: Building a Porch
Reply #13 - May 8th, 2009, 10:30am
 
Thank you again. I'm now looking forward to doing this project.
Best wishes,
Andrew
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