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Timber size and spacing - sheds flat roof (Read 13998 times)
Lectrician
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Timber size and spacing - sheds flat roof
Nov 15th, 2013, 5:03pm
 
This is just a shed, but want it solid.

The shed is having a flat roof which will be felted by a flat roofing company.

The shed is 4m long, 1.7m wide.  Looking to run timbers 1.7m long left to right, not front to back at 4m long.

What spacing would you go for these?  400 or 600mm?

What size timbers to span the 1.7m?
Wickes do some 88x36mm planed treated (would prefer planed as left exposed).  Left it too late to get any from the merchants for the weekend.  Will this do, or shall I wait until next week?

Would you nogg down the middle?

The roof deck will likely be ply or OSB - not sure yet, depends what the roofing company would prefer.
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Re: Timber size and spacing - sheds flat roof
Reply #1 - Nov 15th, 2013, 6:29pm
 
I have an old set of the TRADA span tables which list recommended sizes for all sorts of applications. I didn't think they would go down to such a short span but they do. In the section "Flat Roofs - Access for maintenance and repair only" they suggest around 97 * 38 at 400/450 with roof boards on top for around 1.7m span.

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Re: Timber size and spacing - sheds flat roof
Reply #2 - Nov 16th, 2013, 10:51am
 
all my roof timbers are 3x2 and are quite smooth

ask for 4x2 and go for 610 centers or cls 38mmx 89mm[1 1/2"x 3 1/2"] at 407 centers

and make sure you roof is thick enough or the nails will stick through [at least16mm for 1/2 inch nails]
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Re: Timber size and spacing - sheds flat roof
Reply #3 - Nov 16th, 2013, 2:50pm
 
610?  Not 600?

I have gone for 4x2, managed to getto jewsons this morning.  The timber is smooth, not rough sawn.  Have got enough for 400 centres, but you think 600 is enough?  The roof felt wont be nailed, its going to be a proper felted roof by pros.

Is toe nail fixing enough, or would you hanger it?  I don't really want to put timbers in for the joists to sit on as such, as I would then need to nog the edges?
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Re: Timber size and spacing - sheds flat roof
Reply #4 - Nov 16th, 2013, 7:43pm
 
most sheet material is 1220x2440 imperial mesurements so 16" or 24" centers
some are metric as in 2.4 x600 so 400 0r 600
so choose your sheet material then your spacings Wink
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« Last Edit: Nov 16th, 2013, 7:46pm by big_all »  

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Re: Timber size and spacing - sheds flat roof
Reply #5 - Nov 16th, 2013, 8:13pm
 
Thanks.

Is toenailing the fixings enough?  Or does it need joist hangers?
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Re: Timber size and spacing - sheds flat roof
Reply #6 - Nov 16th, 2013, 10:36pm
 
toe/skew nailing is more for holding wood in place rather than transferring loads in shear[vertical load]
can you not fix them on top and reduce the sidewall frame accordingly
if you extend the joist outside say 3" less than the roof overhang you can secure the guttering brackets to them

if you use joist hangers the roof will try and go flat when screwed to the side frames as the frames are flat
of course if you suss out the slope and work out the natural level [say 6mm you can have the bottom off the joist proud by 6mm allowing the roof slope to the far edge at the same angle
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« Last Edit: Nov 16th, 2013, 10:38pm by big_all »  

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Re: Timber size and spacing - sheds flat roof
Reply #7 - Nov 16th, 2013, 10:40pm
 
Lectrician wrote on Nov 16th, 2013, 2:50pm:
610?  Not 600?

I have gone for 4x2, managed to getto jewsons this morning.  The timber is smooth, not rough sawn.  Have got enough for 400 centres, but you think 600 is enough?  The roof felt wont be nailed, its going to be a proper felted roof by pros.

Is toe nail fixing enough, or would you hanger it?  I don't really want to put timbers in for the joists to sit on as such, as I would then need to nog the edges?


on my roof they nailed the bottom layer then torched the next 3 layer

the average attic in a 100 year old house will be 4x2" on a 11/12/13ft span so 600s are fine at 1.7m
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« Last Edit: Nov 16th, 2013, 10:48pm by big_all »  

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Re: Timber size and spacing - sheds flat roof
Reply #8 - Nov 17th, 2013, 8:16am
 
That makes sense, I have never had a flat roof done from scratch, only re-roofs, but guess the first layer needs fixing.

The wall one side is the garage wall, and can fix a bearer to it, with the joists sitting on it, and then nogg between.  On the other side, the wall is built up from dungboard, and I can bolt a bearer to it at any height I guess.

The way the fall of the roof needs to go, and the way the joists are us awkward, meaning the bearer on each side will run at a fall, the joists all 'leaning' a tad.  The fall is front to back, and the joists left to right.  Had to do it this way as the neighbour is considering extending the flat roof their side to do a similar thing to me, otherwise, fall would be the other way.

Joist hangers a real no in that direction?

Rough pic from ipad!

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Re: Timber size and spacing - sheds flat roof
Reply #9 - Nov 17th, 2013, 8:34am
 
Joist hangers seem a little overkill for a shed but to be honest I can't figure out you are trying to do. How about a diagram, a picture paints a thousand words Grin
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Re: Timber size and spacing - sheds flat roof
Reply #10 - Nov 17th, 2013, 8:39am
 
added a pic as you replied!
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Re: Timber size and spacing - sheds flat roof
Reply #11 - Nov 17th, 2013, 8:45am
 
This is what I have so far.  The fall was going to be away from the garage wall, but as neighbour may tag on, fall now from front to back (looking at front here).  Door either end.  Had to go an extra board up in height to allow fall front to back, hence the extension bits.

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Re: Timber size and spacing - sheds flat roof
Reply #12 - Nov 17th, 2013, 10:43am
 
Sealing the roof to the garage wall might be a pain. Not sure how best to do that if the wall is rendered.
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Re: Timber size and spacing - sheds flat roof
Reply #13 - Nov 17th, 2013, 11:00am
 
Felt can come up and under the existing facia.  Could lead from their too, but reckon the roofer will just felt up wall and behind facia.
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Re: Timber size and spacing - sheds flat roof
Reply #14 - Nov 17th, 2013, 11:28am
 
Those extensions are a bit agricultural, you won't get into the chippy academy with those  Grin.

From the looks of it you could remove them and nail joists, as sort of wall plates, onto the top of the posts. You could add packers onto the top of the posts to give you the required fall. Then you could just run your ceiling joists on top of them, skew nailing them into the wall plates. I'd add a few noggins to make sure it didn't twist too.
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Re: Timber size and spacing - sheds flat roof
Reply #15 - Nov 17th, 2013, 5:09pm
 
I probably will loose those add on extensions and run the 4x2 around the top, 100mm down from the top.  Will have to birds mouth it at the post tops.  I can then sit the roof joists on this to make the final height, and fix the outer top dung board into the ends of the joists.  There will then be a skirt externally around the top, 1x4" or something like that.
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