when i secure into the end of 12mm m d f  i drill a 3mm pilot hole i use 6by2" normal twin wood screws
just wondering if anybody has used some of the other sorts of screws with sucsess  with minimal delamination of the mdf and do the heads pull in without countersinking ??? ???

The turbo ultra are the ones to go for,  they are the same as the gold but stainless with the added bonus of not being threaded the entire length of the shank on the larger sizes which is better for pulling together when not pre-drilling.  A bit pricey but worth it as I have not split anything as of yet, mdf, pine, mahogany and maple.  If too expensive then invest in a set of flip drivers and all your troubles will be over.

Just tried a 5.0x60 stainless turbo into the edge of an 18mm board with no pilot, started to delaminate before the screw had penetrated 10mm!

Jason

For MDF I use the powerdrive screws same as Jason, if you need a shorter screw then dry lining screws work well. If I need a really strong joint then Confirmat screws (from Woodfit for instance) work very well.

I am not really impressed with the stainless turbo screws, they snap at every oportunity. If you need posidrive then the stainless Spax screws sold by Axminster are much better IMHO.

Screwfix also sell slotted stainless screws not so good with a drill driver but very good quality never had any problems with them when used with timber no use for MDF though.

Keith

Sorry guys, I didnt see the bit about screwing into end grain on mdf( it was 5am after all) I only use it to top shelves in wardrobes/cupboards etc. or maybe make doors but always use concealed hinges so havnt really tried end grain
I must admit that I've never snapped one yet though ??? must be lucky.

thanks again men [and womem] still not shure if i can screw without a pilot hole ??? ??? ??? ???
think i will start on the beer will make my brain  think clearer;D

[quote author=big_all  link=1103506278/0#10 date=1103574615]thanks again men [and womem] still not shure if i can screw without a pilot hole ??? ??? ??? ???
think i will start on the beer will make my brain  think clearer;D [/quote]


Do you know something I don't, which of us is female, just looked and it isn't me

[quote author=woodsmith  link=1103506278/0#12 date=1103577798]


Do you know something I don't, which of us is female, just looked and it isn't me [/quote]

bad to make assumption keith and women deserve the same respect as every body else

like you kieth i wasnt female last time i looked but who knows tommorow is a differant day

I generally try to avoid screws into the end of MDF - cranked hinges/battens/modesty blocks, or whatever to avoid it.

If it is essential then always drill a pilot.  If it does split, a touch of "no-nails" rubbed into the split should solve the problem.

I wish Plasplugs still made those chipboard plugs that glue in the ends of boards.
They made a much better fixing for screws and might be ideal for MDF.
They stopped making them about 1990 and when I found out I went round every local DIY shed and hardware shop buying up all they had in stock.
I got a bargain at B&Q as they sold me the last 12 strips for the price of 1 -40 plug strip.

Don't bother with them, split before I had tapped it all the way in!

JB.

thanks again for all your help people i have come to the conclusion as mdf is close pressed fibbers the only fixing that will work is one that doesnt displace more than 10% of the screw area and certainly wont work without a pilot hole as any screw will have to deflect the layers of the mdf because they cant deflect or compress the material
so unless there is a screw that can remove the material quicker than the screw goes in [imposible i think ]i will have to keep drilling and countersinking

funny enough keith thats one of the solutions i worked on too if the mdf delaminates when screwing take the screw out fill with glue put the screw in a few tuns[to stop the glue comming out]clamp tightly then screw home firmly

another point i alway slightly undertighten with the drill and finnish by hand because over tightening will again delaminate the mdf

I don't know if it would be applicable here, but some joints, such as shelves to uprights, can be made quite well with pocket screws, this way the screw is going into the side of the upright, rather than into the edge of the shelf. Much less troublesome.
John

heeelllooo seaco and welome thank you for your comments  

in general i was looking for minimum operations [movements]with maximum results will try plugs and fingers crossed may help but suspect the plugs may still delaminate the layers  
but thanks for the suggestion i will try it

Okay guys (and girls-well someone mentioned them!)
MDF screws, if you must use that dreaded material(me included lately) then why not try MDF screws, and here is the link!!!!http://www.quickscrew.com/screwmdfcskphillps.html  .. and yes i have used these, pilot holes a must .. read later in this posting

now then HM, the cam and dowel fixing is designed specifically for use in chip board type substrates due to the deep thread upon the dowel section, and would delaminate the mdf very rapidly,    

as for mdf fixings anyways, i once was given a fact sheet from one of my suppliers, which stated that any screw fixing must be countersunk, using pre drilled and piloted holes, due to the complete lack of compression available from the material...
hopefully this will help you guys(and girlies)
best regards 8) 8) 8)

i stand corrected upon the dowel /cam, i have always been advised by my suppliers NOT to use in end of mdf panels, as for the screws, they work for me, if you have any doubts why not give quickscrew a ring, and speak to them!!!