Ask The Trades - Guess whose testing the non-competant electricians

BigT

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Guess whose testing the non-competant electricians
Jan 17^th, 2005, 1:38am

Hi again dear friends

I hope this actually gets posted as I tried to post it on screwfix. Here goes

As we are all aware Part P is nothing about safety its about money from start to finish. As we all know its time that the cowboys are kicked out and stopped from giving us a bad name. What has not been mentioned as yet is this. Any of us could be the top man or woman in electrical industry with qualifications coming out of our ears, but unless you join the club, your now only as good as a DIY'er.

If the Government really wanted to save lives and injurys from happening, why dont they make all electrical work completed by qualified persons only, Industrial, commercial & domestic. Also stop the DIY stores selling materials to the public and make it trade only, some DIY'ers are good but there are many who are not but think they are. If they really want to save lives etc, why is there hardly any information about it.

I was astounded to see on B&Q website, they consider that anyone with a bit of common sense and basic electrical skills, can install an outside socket-outlet, I made a complaint to trading standards. Why havnt B&Q etc put anything on their website about Part P, they are scared incase the public wont buy from them, but why arnt they forced to put information on their website. We are being screwed fellers, and its time to do something about it, write to your MP as I am doing.

To the DIY person I say this, a little knowlege is a very dangerous thing, you dont have the knowlege that us tradesmen have taken years to learn or the test equipment so leave it to those who know. Most DIYers think, all they need to do is take a live, earth and neutral to the new light or plug etc and all will be ok, how wrong you are. Try thinking about loading, where a cable can or cannot be run, rating factors, disconnection times etc. If you know the answer to all these questions, then you are half way and only half way to being a tradesman. Tools dont make you a tradesman knowlege does and thats only part of what you pay for.

The Government has thought this all over very cleverly and its all a disguise its just another tax. I went to see my local Building control officer in the new year, and when I asked who is going to check the non-competant electrician, he said I was rude to ask. But now I know who is going to do it and how.

The answer is this, look on the NICEIC site for your area and you will probably see what I saw your local council have enrolled with the NICEIC and also in the domestic installers scheme, but only doing testing and inspecting. Well think about it, they wont have the man power so they will save money by using agency sparks paying them as Ive seen £15.00 per hour + agency charges, but charging over £200.00 a test.

We are being priced out of the market and cheated into joining the club, or shut down what do you think about that then fellers. Also last week I got intouch with my local MP who is labour, I spoke to his secretary in whitehall and said Part P was totally unfair. Two days later another secretary phoned me and said the MP would like to see me, but as he only sees each person for 20 minutes she suggested I also wrote a letter.

The next day I received a letter from this MP who said all the usual facts and figures and said he was fully aware of Part P. He also said there might be a fee for joining a scheme, well if he was aware he should of known there was. He also said due to all these new regulations I would probably need to up my prices and should do so. Seems Labour dont care about us or the poor public who will have to pay in the end. What happened to the labour who was for the working man, probably sharpening their knives to stab some other trade in the back.

Regards BigT

I will let you know the outcome of my visit to my local MP

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LSpark Global Moderator Trade Member Author Offline Posts: 8069 Total Thanks: 3 For This Post: 0 London, UK United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: Guess whose testing the non-competant electric Reply #1 - Jan 17^th, 2005, 1:45am Hello Big T I must commend you on such a well thought out post, holds much truth The sad thing is the part-p debates, although on-going, seem to be shortening in size as people give-in and give-up trying to fight the big guys with big pockets Such is life..
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BigT Trade Member Offline sh*t Happens Posts: 605 Total Thanks: 0 For This Post: 0 Trade: Electrician	Re: Guess whose testing the non-competant electric Reply #2 - Jan 17^th, 2005, 1:54am you there Sparky if so give me your number mate or email addy then I will chat with you. I have MSN & Yahoo
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BigT

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Re: Guess whose testing the non-competant electric
Reply #3 - Jan 17^th, 2005, 2:13am

Thanks for your response to my posting L.sparky

Yes I am going to join a scheme its a case of having too unless I win the lottery, but I wont stop at trying to do something about this. I have toput food on the family table like everyone, and Part P is trying to stop me and all electricians. Two of my friends who are sparkies only earned less than £100.00 last week so think of what the future holds for us all.

Now its join the club next it will be update courses and updating equipment, think about it there will be no end to paying out. When we join the EU community the big boys will employ cheap labour from abroard like they are doing with the telephone services like banks etc.

Years ago I was on a site and a time clock was installed, sparkies filled it with cement as they dissagreed with it. This Part P is worse than any time clock we wouldnt have put up with it years ago, so why now, get intouch with your MP fellers and show them your feelings at part P.

regards BigT >> T to all my friends

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HM

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Re: Guess whose testing the non-competant electric
Reply #4 - Jan 17^th, 2005, 8:03am

Many of us have written to our MPs about part P. I have also contacted the local council, who I found to be sympathetic towards my views. Local councils really don't want this onerous task, it'll put council tax up because they will have to employ more administrators.

A couple of things are likely to result from part P which are unintended consequences. First, the cowboy sparkies will continue as before only it'll be a cash in hand arrangement only ("yes missus, I can put that new light fitting in - call it £50 cash or we can do it on the book wiv a certificate for £250 - your choice").

The second consequence will be that there will be more cowboy operators as sparkies come to understand that dealing with this stupid legislation is unproductive. Sparkies *will* be losing business because the have-a-go heroes won't want to pay the inflated prices, and will do the work themselves.

http://www.handymac.co.uk/PartP.asp

HM

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plugwash

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Re: Guess whose testing the non-competant electric
Reply #5 - Jan 17^th, 2005, 8:45am

another thing is the number of deaths attiruted to fixed wiring is extremely low despite the fact that most sparkys see extremely dodgy wiring all the time.

truth is we MASSIVELY overengineer our wiring. The main way in which we do this is to base our cable choice on the CONTINUOUS rating of cables even though in most cases we are installing them in situations where they won't be under full load for more than half and hour or so.

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LSpark

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Re: Guess whose testing the non-competant electric
Reply #6 - Jan 17^th, 2005, 10:43am

Quote:

First, the cowboy sparkies will continue as before only it'll be a cash in hand arrangement only ("yes missus, I can put that new light fitting in - call it £50 cash or we can do it on the book wiv a certificate for £250 - your choice")

A sparky is not a cowboy just because he doesn't comply with government regulations HM Roll Eyes

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supersparky Administrator Trade Member Author Offline Posts: 6097 Total Thanks: 3 For This Post: 0 Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: Guess whose testing the non-competant electric Reply #7 - Jan 17^th, 2005, 1:49pm well, i was always gunna go registered to nic or the likes of em for the acsess of work, but damn...i was happy plodding along as i was and then part p comes along and is trying(still( to rush me along to join before im ready. ha like fakk- ill join when im ready matey! lol ss
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billythekid Trade Member Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 3402 Total Thanks: 0 For This Post: 0 Trade: Plumber	Re: Guess whose testing the non-competant electric Reply #8 - Jan 17^th, 2005, 2:38pm [quote author=L.Spark link=1105925930/0#6 date=1105958597] A sparky is not a cowboy just because he doesn't comply with government regulations HM [/quote] the chaps and spurs help
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LSpark Global Moderator Trade Member Author Offline Posts: 8069 Total Thanks: 3 For This Post: 0 London, UK United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: Guess whose testing the non-competant electric Reply #9 - Jan 17^th, 2005, 4:23pm [quote author=billythekid link=1105925930/0#8 date=1105972683] the chaps and spurs help [/quote]
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HM Super Member Offline Chief Turd Polisher Posts: 5072 Total Thanks: 0 For This Post: 0 Gender:	Re: Guess whose testing the non-competant electric Reply #10 - Jan 17^th, 2005, 4:29pm Cheap ain't he? $5000, or about £3000 in real money. HM
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LSpark Global Moderator Trade Member Author Offline Posts: 8069 Total Thanks: 3 For This Post: 0 London, UK United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: Guess whose testing the non-competant electric Reply #11 - Jan 17^th, 2005, 4:31pm yer well, no one ever caught him, that was alot of money then well done on 4k posts anyway cowboy
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HM

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Re: Guess whose testing the non-competant electric
Reply #12 - Jan 17^th, 2005, 4:31pm

[quote author=L.Spark link=1105925930/0#6 date=1105958597]A sparky is not a cowboy just because he doesn't comply with government regulations HM Roll Eyes

[/quote]

Depends on your interpretation of cowboy I guess.

In my view a cowboy is defined as someone who knows what the rules are (e.g. part p) and deliberately flouts them.

HM

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JerryD GDPR opt-out Total Thanks: 0 For This Post: 0	Re: Guess whose testing the non-competant electric Reply #13 - Jan 17^th, 2005, 4:39pm A cowboy is also someone who has no idea of the rules, has no interest in learning them, but does the work regardless. He knows he is not doing it 'right' but doesn't care and convinces himself it doesn't matter.
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LSpark Global Moderator Trade Member Author Offline Posts: 8069 Total Thanks: 3 For This Post: 0 London, UK United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: Guess whose testing the non-competant electric Reply #14 - Jan 17^th, 2005, 8:36pm Yea I'm afraid I don't agree with that statement HM I think I’m more on par with what Jerry said there
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get_it_done

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Re: Guess whose testing the non-competant electric
Reply #15 - Jan 21^st, 2005, 5:46pm

[quote author=BigT link=1105925930/0#0 date=1105925930]Hi again dear friends

The Government has thought this all over very cleverly and its all a disguise its just another tax. I went to see my local Building control officer in the new year, and when I asked who is going to check the non-competant electrician, he said I was rude to ask. But now I know who is going to do it and how.
[/quote]

BigT don't accept this attitude. Part P was not the olny piece of legislation to come into force on Jan 1. You now have rights under the Freedom of Infomation Act to ask just such questions of a public body. They have a satutory duty to reply within a set period. See here for details --> http://www.foi.gov.uk/index.htm

So, if we have to abide by the law so do the local councils. Just email your request making clear that it is a FOI enquiry - do it so they get first thing on Monday morning, best time to get their attention.

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