Ask The Trades - Smoke detectors

JohnD

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Smoke detectors
Feb 26^th, 2005, 7:37pm

Thought I'd about got there with my rewire and then someoe said 'Have you fitted the smoke detectors'. Sniff!

I have three linked units to install.

As far as I can see from the instructions I will need a dedicated feed from the CU, which isn't a problem.

Questions.

1. Is a 6amp MCB sufficient?

2. Do I put it on the RCD side or the non RCD side of the CU?

3. Is it o.k. to use 1.5mm cable? And then 3 core and E to link between the detectors?

And then I think I really HAVE finished the rewire!!

Units are Garvan (Screwfix) SS-1238S with 9v battery backup 220 - 240v 55mA in operation.

Thanks

JohnD

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« Last Edit: Feb 26^th, 2005, 7:39pm by tjohndavies »

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LSpark

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Re: Smoke detectors
Reply #1 - Feb 26^th, 2005, 9:47pm

[quote author=JohnD link=1109446657/0#0 date=1109446657]Thought I'd about got there with my rewire and then someoe said 'Have you fitted the smoke detectors'. Sniff! [/quote]
Such is life Grin

Quote:

As far as I can see from the instructions I will need a dedicated feed from the CU, which isn't a problem.

Yep, give it it's own feed

Quote:

1. Is a 6amp MCB sufficient?

Yes

Quote:

2. Do I put it on the RCD side or the non RCD side of the CU?

Non RCD side

Quote:

3. Is it o.k. to use 1.5mm cable? And then 3 core and E to link between the detectors?

Yes, 1.5mm 2core and earth for feed to first unit, 3core and earth for the connection between first and all others

Quote:

Units are Garvan (Screwfix) SS-1238S with 9v battery backup 220 - 240v 55mA in operation.

good good, as long as there BS/BS EN marked, certified etc

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« Last Edit: Feb 26^th, 2005, 9:48pm by LSpark »

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BigT Trade Member Offline sh*t Happens Posts: 605 Total Thanks: 0 For This Post: 0 Trade: Electrician	Re: Smoke detectors Reply #2 - Feb 27^th, 2005, 1:59pm is one of them a heat detector for the kitchen I hope. T
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Lectrician Administrator Trade Member Author Offline Ask The Trades Posts: 8815 Total Thanks: 109 For This Post: 0 Braunton, North Devon United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: Smoke detectors Reply #3 - Feb 27^th, 2005, 2:07pm Detectors should be placed with in 3m of any habitable room I think - No need for a detector IN the kitchen 1mm t+e, and 1mm 3core+e would be the best bet - 1.5 is noticeably larger to fit into these small devices!
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BigT Trade Member Offline sh*t Happens Posts: 605 Total Thanks: 0 For This Post: 0 Trade: Electrician	Re: Smoke detectors Reply #4 - Feb 27^th, 2005, 2:37pm Better check your regulations mate a heat detector is required in a kitchen now T
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Lectrician Administrator Trade Member Author Offline Ask The Trades Posts: 8815 Total Thanks: 109 For This Post: 0 Braunton, North Devon United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: Smoke detectors Reply #5 - Feb 27^th, 2005, 2:41pm Building regs? Since when?
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LSpark Global Moderator Trade Member Author Offline Posts: 8069 Total Thanks: 3 For This Post: 0 London, UK United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: Smoke detectors Reply #6 - Feb 27^th, 2005, 3:02pm Who when how!, bloody reg changes 24/7
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BigT Trade Member Offline sh*t Happens Posts: 605 Total Thanks: 0 For This Post: 0 Trade: Electrician	Re: Smoke detectors Reply #7 - Feb 27^th, 2005, 5:12pm As told you Heat detectors should be fitted in kitchen since 2000. look here on page 5 http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technical/DataSheets/Kidde/Guide_To_RSA.pdf hope that sorts this out. Regards T
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Lectrician Administrator Trade Member Author Offline Ask The Trades Posts: 8815 Total Thanks: 109 For This Post: 0 Braunton, North Devon United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: Smoke detectors Reply #8 - Feb 27^th, 2005, 5:17pm Yea, that has been around for ages. This is when a kitchen is part of a room, in a bedsit for example. If there is a firedoor between the kitchen and a habitable room(as in most new builds), this can be ignored.
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BigT Trade Member Offline sh*t Happens Posts: 605 Total Thanks: 0 For This Post: 0 Trade: Electrician	Re: Smoke detectors Reply #9 - Feb 27^th, 2005, 5:28pm Look at the drawings on page 2 bruv
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Lectrician Administrator Trade Member Author Offline Ask The Trades Posts: 8815 Total Thanks: 109 For This Post: 0 Braunton, North Devon United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: Smoke detectors Reply #10 - Feb 27^th, 2005, 6:23pm I stick to what I say. You are looking at a recommendation from a sales team.
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JohnD GDPR opt-out Total Thanks: 109 For This Post: 0	Re: Smoke detectors Reply #11 - Feb 27^th, 2005, 8:17pm No, (sob ) one of them isn't a heat detector (sob ) I didn't know it had to be..... Never mind, one of the smoke detectors will be close enough to run a feed from if Building Control think it is necessary. Thanks for the advice so far. JohnD
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LSpark Global Moderator Trade Member Author Offline Posts: 8069 Total Thanks: 3 For This Post: 0 London, UK United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: Smoke detectors Reply #12 - Feb 27^th, 2005, 8:43pm lol it could be a mistake T, remember the dual earth terminal socket's in ALL homes?
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BigT Trade Member Offline sh*t Happens Posts: 605 Total Thanks: 0 For This Post: 0 Trade: Electrician	Re: Smoke detectors Reply #13 - Feb 28^th, 2005, 5:33pm Have you seen the recommended amount of sockets you should put in a house these days LS even one by a phone socket for recharging. Dont worry though LS you wont need that one though some bugger nicked yours lol sorry couldnt resist tuchay as they say Lol. Regards T
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LSpark Global Moderator Trade Member Author Offline Posts: 8069 Total Thanks: 3 For This Post: 0 London, UK United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: Smoke detectors Reply #14 - Feb 28^th, 2005, 10:04pm
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CWatters

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Re: Smoke detectors
Reply #15 - Mar 3^rd, 2005, 10:32am

[quote author=Lectrician link=1109446657/0#8 date=1109524660]If there is a firedoor between the kitchen and a habitable room(as in most new builds), this can be ignored. [/quote]

Does there _have_ to be a fire rated door between a kitchen and a living room these days? I was planning to fit a glass door but I suspect they aren't classed as fire doors...
http://www.flora-glasdesign.de/

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Lectrician Administrator Trade Member Author Offline Ask The Trades Posts: 8815 Total Thanks: 109 For This Post: 0 Braunton, North Devon United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: Smoke detectors Reply #16 - Mar 3^rd, 2005, 4:42pm How often do you see a door during the building control inspection.....and then it becomes an archway! Ask your question again in the building section. You may get a better answer
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mark Junior Member Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 19 Total Thanks: 0 For This Post: 0	Re: Smoke detectors Reply #17 - Mar 3^rd, 2005, 10:19pm [quote author=Lectrician link=1109446657/0#5 date=1109515267]Building regs? Since when? [/quote] its in the latest edition of BS 5839-6.2004 fire detection and fire alerm systems for buildings
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JohnD

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Re: Smoke detectors
Reply #18 - Mar 4^th, 2005, 12:34am

Yes, it seems I need a heat detector. The doorway between our kitchen and dining room has a brick arch, and is too low to fit a fire door too - or any door, come to that.

I can't find a heat detector which is compatible with the 240v 9v backup smoke detectors I have already bought.

Is the answer to buy a fire alarm panel and connect a heat detector to that, and have two separate systems, or will that still not satisfy regs?

Or shall I just bite the bullet, fit a lintel and a firedoor and take the firedoor out again after Building Control have finished with me.

Every time I think I have got this job sussed it gets more complicated. Sad

Am posting this is a slightly different form in the alarms section as well.

Thanks JohnD

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LSpark Global Moderator Trade Member Author Offline Posts: 8069 Total Thanks: 3 For This Post: 0 London, UK United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: Smoke detectors Reply #19 - Mar 4^th, 2005, 8:23pm Quote: I can't find a heat detector which is compatible with the 240v 9v backup smoke detectors I have already bought must be some john, it's standard connections..
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do_it_dreakly Trade Member Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 75 Total Thanks: 0 For This Post: 0 Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: Smoke detectors Reply #20 - Mar 4^th, 2005, 10:02pm surely if this is a rewire you dont have to apply to the latest building regs if you did we would all be stuffed
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JohnD

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Re: Smoke detectors
Reply #21 - Mar 5^th, 2005, 2:01am

No, its just a kitchen added on to an existing house, but Building Control tell me that unless there is a fire door between the kitchen and the dining room (the present kitchen) they will expect to find a heat detector in the kitchen as well as the mains wired smoke alarms they have already told me will need installing...........

JohnD

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JohnD

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Re: Smoke detectors
Reply #22 - Mar 5^th, 2005, 8:23pm

[quote author=JohnD link=1109446657/15#18 date=1109896497]

I can't find a heat detector which is compatible with the 240v 9v backup smoke detectors I have already bought.

[/quote]

I needn't have worried. The interconnect facility on my Screwfix smoke alarms doesn't work Sad

(even though my wiring seems o.k., (and yes, I have bench tested them to make sure, much to my dog's delight

) so they are going back. I can then buy smoke alarm/ heat detector units which are known to be compatible.

Anyione suggest a good make - and tell me where to get them? (And don't mention Screwxxx! Lips Sealed

)

Thanks

JohnD

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« Last Edit: Mar 5^th, 2005, 8:24pm by tjohndavies »

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ban-all-sheds GDPR opt-out Total Thanks: 0 For This Post: 0	Re: Smoke detectors Reply #23 - Mar 6^th, 2005, 11:03pm I've seen Firex get good recommendations, but if Those Who Know on the Alarms forum give different advice, go with theirs....
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Lectrician Administrator Trade Member Author Offline Ask The Trades Posts: 8815 Total Thanks: 109 For This Post: 0 Braunton, North Devon United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: Smoke detectors Reply #24 - Mar 7^th, 2005, 7:40am Aico Easy Fit
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ban-all-sheds

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Re: Smoke detectors
Reply #25 - Mar 7^th, 2005, 8:52am

[quote author=CWatters link=1109446657/15#15 date=1109845945]

Does there _have_ to be a fire rated door between a kitchen and a living room these days? I was planning to fit a glass door but I suspect they aren't classed as fire doors... [/quote]
Presumably there's a definition somewhere of what a fire door is? Or some sort of rating system that means when you buy a door you can tell whether it is classed as a fire door?

But unless the regs also insist on automatic closer devices, it's all a farce anyway. I have a door on my kitchen - it's open 99.99% of the time....

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LSpark Global Moderator Trade Member Author Offline Posts: 8069 Total Thanks: 3 For This Post: 0 London, UK United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: Smoke detectors Reply #26 - Mar 7^th, 2005, 1:43pm There's no point getting a fire-door and then having to spend £100 just on a door closer, much cheaper to get the interlinked heat detector
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JohnD GDPR opt-out Total Thanks: 3 For This Post: 0	Re: Smoke detectors Reply #27 - Mar 7^th, 2005, 3:32pm Aico easy fit it is - all the local electricians merchants seem to stock them, which says something good! Thanks, Lectrician JohnD
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Lectrician

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Re: Smoke detectors
Reply #28 - Mar 7^th, 2005, 6:26pm

Aico look good, work well, and are actually realy cheap!

They also have a hush button which is useful Wink

All ground floor doors and kitchen doors have to have a closer on them now (not sure of the exact reg, but all new builds here have them).

They dont need to be the commercial top of the door type, just the chain in the hinge side of the door, or hinge closers.

Fire doors have a spec, and will also have an intumiscent strip around them. they have a coloured dowl in the door edge to tell the fire rating.

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LSpark Global Moderator Trade Member Author Offline Posts: 8069 Total Thanks: 3 For This Post: 0 London, UK United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: Smoke detectors Reply #29 - Mar 7^th, 2005, 6:57pm yea, blue
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Lectrician Administrator Trade Member Author Offline Ask The Trades Posts: 8815 Total Thanks: 109 For This Post: 0 Braunton, North Devon United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: Smoke detectors Reply #30 - Mar 7^th, 2005, 7:38pm Or red Depends on the rating, in terms of hours
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LSpark Global Moderator Trade Member Author Offline Posts: 8069 Total Thanks: 3 For This Post: 0 London, UK United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: Smoke detectors Reply #31 - Mar 7^th, 2005, 7:55pm Yea but I like only the best ..blue is best right?
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Lectrician Administrator Trade Member Author Offline Ask The Trades Posts: 8815 Total Thanks: 109 For This Post: 0 Braunton, North Devon United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: Smoke detectors Reply #32 - Mar 7^th, 2005, 8:07pm No idea - I aint no chippy
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LSpark Global Moderator Trade Member Author Offline Posts: 8069 Total Thanks: 3 For This Post: 0 London, UK United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: Smoke detectors Reply #33 - Mar 7^th, 2005, 8:10pm why not!?, learn one trade, move to ~~another~~ plumbing
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