I've just fitted a utility and had to run 2 extension leads round the room rather than provide 2 extra sockets like I would have done last year.

The customer had booked an electrician to come round today and sort the CU out as it is a mess, actually I think it is bloody dangerous.

Anyway went round to the house this morning to see if the sparks would put some sockets in while he fitting a new CU and he hasn't turned up and no reply from his phone .

So now she is going to leave it as she has been trying to get a sparks for months but has now given up.

This is not an isolated case, don't tell me Part P has anything to do with safety.

It's forcing me to do a crap job which goes completely against the grain.

[quote author=ban-all-sheds  link=1112095253/0#0 date=1112095253]OK - since I can no longer reply to this posting in its original thread I'll start a new one [/quote]

Just to be clear - I had nothing at all to do with the deletion of what you refer to.

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I think we should be careful when comparing like with like.

I have never been to Oz or NZ so I cannot speak from experience. However, my understanding is that their climate can be vastly superior to ours in terms of good weather content.

Is it possible there are more swimming pools per capita? Common suggestion is that there are a lot more "barbies" taking place outside. Could it be that there are a lot more accidents taking place involving non-fixed wiring? So are we really comparing exactly the same?

I'm not saying we are or are not. I'm just saying that we have to be a little cautious about suggesting that two countries can be compared directly as you suggest.

In this country the government have kindly given us Part P "to save 40 odd lives per year", when they know full well from statistical evidence that the number of lives lost per year due to fixed wiring (which Part P applies to) is 2-3.

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I can't answer that question because I am not sure of the facts as you seem to be. However, it can be no bad thing if we keep the amateurs away from doing the dodgy wiring.

HM

I dont think DIY wiring should be linked to deaths as an argument.

Yes, people will die - as will qualified sparks with their minds on other things.

It is still to do with workmanship though.  When you go house hunting, you can spot a DIY house from a mile away, unless it was done by a 'pro-diyer', and lets face it, they are few and far between.

I would hate to live in a house that I new a DIY'er had been let loose on.

I now you BAS, and several others are very confident and capable as DIY'ers in both sparking and other trades (as all us sparks are ).  And these "DIY'er's" do a good, un-questionable job.

Unforunatly, to weed out the guys wo think they can BUT DEFFINANTLY CANT, the good guys get hit.  It's the same with plumbers, and many other trades and businesses.

I would love to be able to install alarms, and know how to do it, and could probaly do a better job that many companies out there, but I am also aware that I am not NACOSS approved, and shouldn't really do them.  (I still do, and hand the maintenance over to a sister company we have be-friended, who checks the install over and warrents it).

There is no line scribed between PRO and DIYER, there are sooo many variables between.

There are too many DIY'ers who talk a good job, then bodge, and many who think their final work is great, and A-OK, when in fact it is a pile of sh1te.  It is these guys Part P is targetting, but unfortunatly hitting others in the process.

My thoughts anyway.

Just get qualified BAS, job done then

Yea, a bit tounge in cheek when I made that comment

Things change, we need to move on.  Work with the system, it's easier in the long run

What do the likes of BAS and Plug to for a living?  Just interested, not prying or condeming!

[quote author=Lectrician  link=1112095253/0#5 date=1112115128]I dont think DIY wiring should be linked to deaths as an argument. [/quote]
Neither do I,  but people who argue for a ban invariably come back to it in an attempt to justify their position.

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One thing I've often wondered is that even with the casualties that do happen, how many of them were due not to shoddy work resulting in dodgy wiring but to forgetting to turn off the supply?.   i.e. DIYer was doing some wiring that would have been perfectly safe had he not electrocuted himself first...

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But there's no evidence that the problem is severe enough to warrant the intrusive and oppressive state interference that you want...

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If there was a way, I would.  Even NAPIT's "low cost" scheme for people who don't do many notifiable jobs (from memory 8 per year, but I can't find details on their website right now) is still not cheap.

Yo - the point I'm making is that the installation work itself could have been done to the highest standards, able to pass the most rigorous inspection, but someone could still remove a socket and jam the wires into their eyes.    Would that be counted as a fixed-wiring related death?

BAS...there is a flaw in your original post. I read it, and did some research, including talking to NZ and Aussie sparks that I know. I also spoke to my Uncle (by email) as he has lived in Auckland for the last 35 years.

The figures you speak of are accurate..however the way you have portrayed them is misleading. Yes the death rate in Kiwi for the last decade figures have been compiled for are 1.45 times less that of Australia for the same period, however the population of Australia is a darn sight more than NZ...and when these figures are actually adjusted for population, the Death rate for NZ is actually 5.2 times HIGHER that Australia.

However, as many have pointed out here, 99.99% of DIY "electricians" do not kill themselves or someone else and to simply focus on death rates is misleading and detracts from the real arguments in this case.

The simple fact is, that generally the standard of work undertaken by the DIY set is FAR FAR lower than that of professionals. Of course there are exceptional DIYers, and exceptionally poor "professionals", but lets face some stark facts here....

We all have a driving license, yet we are barred from simply getting in our Cars and saying we are Cab drivers, with the exception of London Private Hire companies, there are very stringent regulations in place, and no sane person would question this. The same is true for Train drivers, Coach and Bus drivers, truck drivers, JCB drivers, crane operators bla de bla de bla..the list goes on.

F.u.c.k me, even Gas fitters have stringent regulations in place that gives them job protection.

So why the f.u.c.k can't the sparks of this nation. Why should our jobs be damaged by the like of the have a go hero with a screwdriver?

Everyone seems to think sparks earn a fortune, this may have been true historically, but today UK sparks have the lowest income for the industry in the Industrialised world..FACT...

JIB sparks earn LESS than a good receptionist in London!!

You may have the right to kill yourself if you choose (exaggeration), but don't we have the right to earn a decent wage?

And what of the people who buy the house after all the bodging has been done??

This is bigger than one persons ego trip to prove they can do it.

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Well you certainly hit the nail on the head Jim..