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Flue positions (Read 19823 times)
spongebob
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Flue positions
Sep 3rd, 2005, 11:04pm
 
I have a brochure for a combi boiler. There is a note which states: The distance from a fanned draught appliance terminal installed parallel to a boundary may not be less than 300mm. Is this to prevent problems should an extension be built in the future. In a situation where there is no possibility of an extension being built could this regulation be waived. I only ask cos if this reg must be strictly adhered to it is going to have a bit of an impact on our kitchen design.
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billythekid
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Re: Flue positions
Reply #1 - Sep 3rd, 2005, 11:09pm
 
parallel to the boundary, meaning out the back wall of your property.  300mm is only a foot, how close is next door? and will they be building an extension?


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spongebob
Re: Flue positions
Reply #2 - Sep 3rd, 2005, 11:41pm
 
Out the back wall is correct but would ideally like boiler installed on party wall. Property is terraced. No chance of any extension being built as there is a road outside the back door. Haven't done any proper measuring yet. I suppose I could visit manufacturers website and try to get the dimensions I need. It just looks as though it will be tight if the brochure is anything to go by. Kitchen planner is coming Tuesday so i need to have it ironed out by then.
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billythekid
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Re: Flue positions
Reply #3 - Sep 3rd, 2005, 11:59pm
 
ok stop me if i'm getting this all messed up in my(whisky soaked) brain, but how can you flue a boiler on a party wall? I think you mean right up against your party wall with the flue thru the back wall right? or even side exiting flue with boiler mounteed on party wall.  if thats the case you might well be cutting it close.  there are other regs too which might com into effect, proximity to openable windows etc.

The answer I suppose is that you definately need to take notice of this reg, its concerning products of combustion i.e carbon monoxide in a worst case scenario.  If your neighbour puts up a conservatory you wouldnt want to be the one responsible for their deaths just because it fitted your kitchen layout better would you. I'd ask your neighbour if they are ever going to build onto their property, or even if they would be allowed to, depending on your area they might not be able to get the planning permission to extend. If the boiler definately HAS to go there then this is your only option.

Would it be possible to put it up the loft or somewhere else in the house?
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« Last Edit: Sep 4th, 2005, 1:02am by billythekid »  
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Re: Flue positions
Reply #4 - Sep 4th, 2005, 12:07am
 
[quote author=billythekid  link=1125785085/0#3 date=1125788359]ok stop me if i'm getting this all messed up in my(whiskey soaked) brain, but how can you flue a boiler on a party wall? I think you mean right up against your party wall with the flue thru the back wall right? or even side exiting flue with boiler mounteed on party wall.  if thats the case you might well be cutting it close.  there are other regs too which might com into effect, proximity to openable windows etc.

The answer I suppose is that you definately need to take notice of this reg, its concerning products of combustion i.e carbon monoxide in a worst case scenario.  If your neighbour puts up a conservatory you wouldnt want to be the one responsible for their deaths just because it fitted your kitchen layout better would you. I'd ask your neighbour if they are ever going to build onto their property, or even if they would be allowed to, depending on your area they might not be able to get the planning permission to extend. If the boiler definately HAS to go there then this is your only option.

Would it be possible to put it up the loft or somewhere else in the house? [/quote]

btk, call yourself a scotsman, drinking irish/american Angry
scotch is spelt whisky
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billythekid
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Re: Flue positions
Reply #5 - Sep 4th, 2005, 1:02am
 
oh what a fowks pass, lol repaired...


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Re: Flue positions
Reply #6 - Sep 4th, 2005, 3:18pm
 
Spongebob.....have you also considered Quote:
there are other regs too which might com into effect, proximity to openable windows etc.  
? You need to check all these aswell. Usual all these dimensions are given in the manufacturers insatllation manual, if not they are freely available at the odpm website under part J. Or try here Flue position

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« Last Edit: Sep 4th, 2005, 3:20pm by Timmo »  
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spongebob
Re: Flue positions
Reply #7 - Sep 4th, 2005, 9:57pm
 
Okey cokey. The brochure is for a Baxi 105HE Plus. All other requirements for the flue are satisfied apart from the 300mm from the property boundary line. Now I suppose whoever installs the boiler could be asked to add a 45 degree bend to the flue elbow thus giving the required 300mm. I'm just having trouble picturing how it will look, it may end up being boxed in I don't know. All I was really wanting to know was if the regulation could be waived in a situation where there was no likelihood whatsoever of an extension being constructed in the future given that at the rear of  the property there is a small footpath and then a road. If I rang corgi or Baxi would they talk to me or would it have to be a registered guy?
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Re: Flue positions
Reply #8 - Sep 5th, 2005, 12:20am
 
Assuming it's a public footpath then I think,  and my  collegues will confirm you are not allowed to discharge the flue over a public area.

Sorry I can't give you a better answer but I don't do domestic.
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Re: Flue positions
Reply #9 - Sep 5th, 2005, 4:51pm
 
No! you can not discharge a flue over a public path or area.
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spongebob
Re: Flue positions
Reply #10 - Sep 5th, 2005, 10:05pm
 
Flippity flip scruff!!!! There's a bombshell. I hadn't come across that in my research and it wasn't mentioned to us by the guy who we originally approached to do the installation. Is it just the new condensing boiler flues that this applies to or is it all combis. If it's all combi's there are a few illegal installations around here. We currently have a back boiler and were looking to change to reclaim space in the loft for a conversion. I cant think of another suitable place to put it. This is a BUMMER!
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Re: Flue positions
Reply #11 - Sep 5th, 2005, 11:01pm
 
I'm not absolutely sure on this  ???, but I think if the flue terminal can be raised to  a certain level (2 metres?) above ground level, you would be OK to discharge over a public highway or whatever. Logically, there must be some height above which it doesn't matter.  

If you went for a Keston boiler, the flue pipe is merely 50mm uPVC "waste" pipe, so extending it is easy and cheap  Wink.
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chtechie
Re: Flue positions
Reply #12 - Sep 5th, 2005, 11:02pm
 
In the loft with a vertical flue kit might be a location ?
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« Last Edit: Sep 5th, 2005, 11:02pm by chtechie »  
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spongebob
Re: Flue positions
Reply #13 - Sep 5th, 2005, 11:30pm
 
The whole idea of a combi install was brought about cos we wished to free up space in the loft for a conversion. Defeats the object a bit if we have to put a combi up there. I'm a bit p****d about this at the minute.
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Re: Flue positions
Reply #14 - Sep 6th, 2005, 1:12am
 
spongebob, did your read and digest my previous post? There is a ray of hope... Wink
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Re: Flue positions
Reply #15 - Sep 6th, 2005, 7:16am
 
As Chris says - perhaps the flue come out where you planned then go vertically up to a suitable height. I guess it might need to be insulated/caged in some way if it gets hot.
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spongebob
Re: Flue positions
Reply #16 - Sep 6th, 2005, 9:55pm
 
Me again. chrishutt, 2metres is easily achievable but I ain't come across Keston boilers in my trawl for brochures. will look them up.
Had a word with a plumber today who was working in the street. He wasn't aware of this reg and he dug out his little corgi manual and was unable to find any specific reference. I'm further confused by the fact that there is at least one condensing boiler installation nearby that was carried out by a long established local company. oh for the day when gas runs out and we all go back to coal fires.
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spongebob
Re: Flue positions
Reply #17 - Sep 6th, 2005, 10:21pm
 
Still researching this issue. Have been to odpm web site. How can you assess a building for the lowest cost option for installing a condensing boiler yet ignore existing fitments or the owners wishes. I certainly don't want a boiler in any of my bedrooms as I'd lose valuable existing cupboard space and I imagine there would be additional costs in connecting up to existing pipe work. Where does this government get off saying that I don't have a say in what I do in my own home. If I was younger, I'd emigrate to somewhere with a more sympathetic government, like Zimbabwe or Iran!
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spongebob
Re: Flue positions
Reply #18 - Sep 6th, 2005, 11:29pm
 
I've read Approved Doc J. I've read the condensing boiler assessment procedure. Due to the type of property I have I think I'll be struggling to install a condenser. However I feel that the info I have gleaned will help me weed out the good from the bad when it comes to getting quotes. I'm going to bed now. I have a headache from all those regs. Don't know how you guys manage on a daily basis!
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Re: Flue positions
Reply #19 - Sep 6th, 2005, 11:32pm
 
spongebob.

Good news and bad news.

The new regs for condensing boilers have been re-worded  Grin

Wall terminals should be sited a minimum of  2.5m from a facing wall, fence, building or the property boundry

More restrictive requirements apply for a wall terminal that discharges over a public footpath.

e.g. a minimum height to the underside of the terminal of 2.1m.

for more information see.

http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/groups/odpm_buildreg/documents/page/odpm_breg_03...
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spongebob
Re: Flue positions
Reply #20 - Sep 7th, 2005, 12:04am
 
scruff. I've read all that. I could get the height no problem. The issue now is the boundary matter and I'll have to make enquiries to clear that up. At the rear of the property the set up is as follows, back door, footpath, access road, communal lawned area. Although the local council do the grass cutting I'm almost certain that my boundary extends into it . It's all a bit of a pain really. One additional note. I e-mailed this info to a mate. He paid last year to have his conventional boiler moved from a bedroom into a out house. Now if he changes to a condenser he won't be able to use his drive without considerable flue extension. I've still got the head ache by the way.
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Re: Flue positions
Reply #21 - Sep 7th, 2005, 12:22am
 
"I've read Approved Doc J. I've read the condensing boiler assessment procedure."

Please be clear that rules in the condensing boiler assessment procedure do not apply to the actual installation. Only doc. J applies, together with manufacturers Instructions. Figures given by scruff above are not applicable!

As you can see, it's all very confusing. If it's any consolation, we're all getting thoroughly pissed off with all the new regs., etc. It's just escalated beyond the threshold of what your average heating installer can cope with. End result will be more and more people saying "sod it" and ignoring it all. Well done John Prescott.
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« Last Edit: Sep 7th, 2005, 12:58am by chrishutt »  
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Re: Flue positions
Reply #22 - Sep 9th, 2005, 5:50pm
 
Quote:
I have I think I'll be struggling to install a condenser


Just curious... why is it harder to install a condensing boiler than a non-condensing boiler? The condensing gas boiler we have is quite small and there are no extra pipes or anything so I'm slightly confused as to why you think they are harder to fit in?

Perhaps I've missed something - I'm no expert!
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Re: Flue positions
Reply #23 - Sep 9th, 2005, 10:58pm
 
Quote:
there are no extra pipes

Don't you have a condensate drain (white plastic) on your condensing boiler?
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Re: Flue positions
Reply #24 - Sep 10th, 2005, 10:30am
 
Well now you've got me thinking. We don't have a pipe for the condensate. Humm I'm beginning to wonder if our boiler really is a condensing boiler!

It's a Bosch/Junkers Cerastar but I've only found limited  data for the model we have on the web...

In dutch it says...

In sommige ruimtes is het (bijna) onmogelijk om een luchttoevoerbuis te installeren. Een open toestel biedt dan uitkomst, mits er voldoende ventilatie is. Als u kiest voor de Bosch Junkers Cerastar hoeft u geen concessies te doen aan uw comfort. (verbeterd rendement uitvoering)

Which  I think says...

In some spaces it is (almost) impossible install a ventilation pipe (condensate pipe?). An open appliance brings then help, provided that there is sufficient ventilation. If you choose you no do concessions to your comfort for the bosch Junkers Cerastar must. (improved output implementation)



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Re: Flue positions
Reply #25 - Sep 10th, 2005, 7:23pm
 
Well translated! But they're talking about the air inlet duct to the boiler, which is not required if an open flue appliance is used. Nothing about condensate pipes. If it doesn't have a condensate drain, it ain't a condenser!

8.13 pm - just done some research. I'm almost certain that the Cerastar is not a condensing boiler (brennwertgeraete in German). If you were sold it as a condenser you've been conned.  Roll Eyes
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« Last Edit: Sep 10th, 2005, 8:17pm by chrishutt »  
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