Hi TT,

Don't rush off out to by a "digital" aerial as I believe you have a problem.  According to wolfbane site your area is NOT yet covered by a digital transmitter. Neither the Matlock transmitter nor the one at Bolhill are due to go digital until 1st May 2011....

http://www.ukfree.tv/shutdowndetail.php?tx=SK297589
http://www.ukfree.tv/shutdowndetail.php?tx=SK295552

Are any neighbours able to pick up Freeview and if so which transmitter are they pointed at?

There are two wolfbane sites. One for Analogue and one for Digital. To work out what you need you normally have to look at the results from both and merge the data.  By the way there is no such thing as a "Digital TV aerial" despite what some manufacturers put on the packaging! Aerials marketed as "Digital" are generally wideband aerials and these are to be avoided unless absolutely necessary because wideband aerials have lower gain than narrow band aerials!

First we head off to the the Digital site..
==========================

http://www.wolfbane.com/cgi-bin/tvd.exe?DX=M&OS=DE4%203PD&HT=10

This says that there are currently no local digital transmitters and no distant ones either! This is probably because the wolfbane site takes into account the terrain (hills!) between you and the transmitters. For example if you tell it the aerial height is 75 rather than 10 meters it will tell you that you should be able to pick up the Waltham transmitter 37 miles away.  For that you would need a really big wideband aerial mounted as high as you can get it. It would probably also need to be fitted with a mast head amplifier (not a back of set booster amp - they are the devils work). A local professional installer who knows the local terrain might suggest another transmitter and other aerial options but I do believe you would need a skilled professional to set this up at the moment - assuming it's possible at all. A tree in the wrong place may make all the difference.

Now to the Analogue site...
===================

http://www.wolfbane.com/cgi-bin/tva.exe?DX=M&HT=10&OS=DE4+3PD

This says your area is served by two transmitters. One at Bolehill 2 miles away and one at Matlock itself. These are very very low power transmitters - just enough to cover the immediate area. The table says you need:

For Matlock: a "Group A, vertically polarised, amplified extra high gain aerial.
For Bolhill: a "Group CD, vertically polarised, amplified extra high gain aerial.

Note: A "Group A" aerial is a narrow band aerial designed to cover the lower part of the TV band. It will have higher gain than a typical wideband aerial.  A group A aerial pointed at Matlock will be also perfect for recieving digital from Matlock when it goes digital in 2011.

http://www.ukfree.tv/shutdowndetail.php?tx=SK297589

Please don't let some cowboy put up a cheap wideband aerial pointed at Matlock because that's all he has in the van.  A wideband is not really suitable for Matlock even if it appears to work.

Summary
======

You may have to wait until 2011 for digital but consult a professional to see if there is any chance of getting it from a distant transmitter before then.

See above if you want a new analog aerial. I'd be tempted to go for a large Group A pointed at Matlock, possibly with a mast head amp. This should work fine when Matlock goes digital.

Note your existing aerial might already be the correct type. It might just be old or need realigning or the down lead might be waterlogged.

Consider having that booster replacing with a low noise masthead amp.  If you need to feed more than one TV use a low gain Distribution Amplifier rather than a booster.

Sorry for any typos. In a rush.

Hi C/W,

Many thanks for that - I'll take a look at what the neighbours have on their chimney stack and see if I can spot the coloured bung.

I was aware that digital reception is supposedly not available, nor it seems, are there any plans to make it so - according to the BBC and a few local radio/TV retailers.

The Matlock transmitter is actually a couple of hundred feet below us and is sited in a gorge - I live high on a hillside and although we can't see it, we overlook the top of the transmitter mast.
No one up here has been able to utilize this transmitter for reception, and most are either Waltham or Bolehill.
Bolehill is actually at a similar height, but is round the corner from us further up the valley - and certainly not in line of sight.

I think our aerial is actually pointing at Waltham, despite it being the farthest away.
Any info on what cable I should use?
More soon

TT

If you do replace the aerial then most definitely yes,.....go for the proper satellite or digital type cable. 'Normal' co-ax is no good.  To give you an example...I am line of site to Ridge Hill - 14 miles away. Nothing in the way.  They're on a hill. I'm on another one.  Got a Freeview box and some channels couldn't be received. Bought a new aerial.  No improvement.  Replaced the cable.,  Bingo.

What a load of hassle Dave to watch a load of crap. Get a book mate or better still spend more time on sparky forums they are a LOT more fun  

OK - Have just taken a couple of photos - the smaller darker coloured aerial on the left is ours. No idea what types they are though. It looks to me that they are both pointing somewhere out towards either Sutton Coldfield, or Waltham?

The bright metal coloured one is our neighbour's - THEY CAN get Freeview.

His post code is hidden above  

I think all I can tell from the photos is that you probably have a "Grouped" aerial designed for part of the transmission band (all the little rods/elements are the same size and have constant spacing = optimised for one set of frequencies).

To get digital from Waltham (if that's where the neighbour is pointed) you need a wideband aerial instead. Your neighbours aerial looks like it might be a wideband but a bit hard to be certain from the photo.  

Is your channel line up as follows BBC 1 on 58, BBC2 on 64 and ITV on 61? If so it will be Waltham.

Just a quick recap - Cable types - Satellite ok, but is there a specific brand or part no I should be looking for?

Are all Sat cables the same quality and specification?

TT

CWatters wrote on Feb 28^th, 2008, 7:54am:

Seems to only be about 3-4db of difference, an ammount easilly made up for by going for a slightly bigger ariel and having a wideband avoids problems if you want to change transmitter or if they start broadcasting some freeview muxes outside of your areas normal band.

Right chaps - Today I have had a company (SKYFORCE LTD) to come out and quote.

Spec is as follows -

1 x 'DMX10' antenna.
Feeding 3 points.
1 x masthead amp & power unit.
Cable is CT100 with foam dialeteric.
Price - £259.68

I have to supply & fit the backboxes and supply the front outlets.


Also, can anyone give me some info on outlet plates?
I was in my wholesalers yesterday, and he was talking about 'insulated' and 'non-insulated' types - what applies to what here?
I want to fit MK LOGIC white plates to match the socket outlets.

Comments please?

Ta

TT

That spec looks ok to me. The DMX10 is a 52 element aerial. Should look like this..



Ask how they are driving the three seperate faceplates from one aerial? They should be using a masthead amp with three seperate outputs rather than passive splitters (T joints).

If the mast head amp they bring has four outputs perhaps ask the fitter if it would be possible for him to run a wire from the un-used output into the loft and leave a few meters coiled up. Might come in handy later.

I could suggest other things to do if you are ever likely to want to distribute Sky to multiple rooms but perhaps not complicate things.

Na - the signal is still passed, but there is a tiny loss.  The isolated outlets litterally simply protect the amp from short circuit type faults.

Amps have built in protection to shut down on a fault on an output.  In flats etc, it would be a pain if everyone lost TV because someone was trying to use a dodgy fly lead to connect the TV.

In saying this, many amps these days have 'isolated outputs', where only the output thats faulty shuts down.  However, there are still many that will shut down completely, or simply be unable to work with a shorted output.

Go for non-isolated.  That is what all domestic installs use.

An amp with four outputs will be far superior to an amp with a splitter in the loft, unless the splitter is powered.  Ask if the masthead amp has a single or four outputs.

The masthead amps, and many loft amps fitted by aerial guys, run on 12v DC which is derived from one of the coax downleads (outputs).  This is usually from the main TV location, and the powersupply that sends this 12v up the coax is placed in line with the coax at this point.  This is far easier for aerial guys, as they do not need to mess with lecky in the loft.  It can however be a pain when you move house - most people take the powers supply with them, thinking it is the booster.  Then the next folk in the house have no TV reception!  In away, I wish the aerial guys would fix the power supply to the wall or skirting atleast!

Quote:



But he is talking about a downlead from an aerial, not an uplink to an additional TV from the sky box.  Agreed though, the isolated plate would block the 9v required for the eye.

However, TT, you must make sure that which ever location is going to have the power supply does not use an isolated outlet plate, as this would block the 12 to the booster.

MK have non-isolated TV outlets in the Logic series...

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MKK3520.html
and
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technical/DataSheets/MK/TelephoneSkts.pdf

Looks like the part you want is K3520 WHI = TV/FM Co-axial socket(single).  These have a socket similar to the aerial connector on the back of your TV.

Aside: Personally I have a slight preference for threaded "F" connectors as found on the back of Sky boxes. MK also do those Part number K3525.

http://www.fastlec.co.uk/images/mk/k3525whi.jpg

The F connector is slightly better quality than a regular aerial socket connector but if you go for face plates with F connectors you need special leads with an F plug on one end and an TV aerial connector at the other. Maplin carry them but perhaps not many other highstreet stores.

Gents -

Further to my previous queries!

I have now reached a point in my house renovation whereby I need to route some CT100 cable in quickly before the plasterer buries everything!

So, Am thinking the following -

Get some kind of distribution box put up in the loft and run cable down from there to outlet in room to be plastered.

At a future date, get aerial man to come and fit aerial, masthead amp etc, and downlead from aerial to loft. I can run a dedicated 240V supply to the loft to be specifically used for powering any TV stuff up there.

I can then run from the loft to each room as I move through the house doing the renovations.

What is the best type/brand  of distribution box to get?
Am most likely looking at something with 4 or 6 outlets.


TT

You dont need a loft box if you are not installing sky TT.

Just get a digital ready distribution amp.

For distributing TV around the house yes it should be fine.

I note that it's designed for situations where there is no power in the loft - its sends power from the power supply unit up the coax to the distribution amp in the loft. If you have a power up there it might be neater to put the power unit in the loft or get one with a built in power supply and mains plug

Did your aerial install work out ok? Did they need to install a mast head amplifier or similar? If so the way that's powered might cause complications. Some mast head amps are powered up the cable as well and you might need a distribution amp that provides that (this one doesn't).

Finally got this bugger sorted out once and for all!

Plumped for a Freesat dish with 4 way lmb thing, 4 lots of cable into loft with one presently feeding a Grundig Freesat box.

Oh boy, there ain't half some shitt on satellite telly!

Now I know why I feel that I haven't missed anything great for the last 10 years or so!

TT