Hi guys, was lookin for your advice. I'm competitant and wishing to do City and Guilds 2381 and 2391. I would ideally like to do them in as shorter space as possible. Anyone know who offers courses lasting a few days? Preferably in the london area / Hertfrodshire/ Buckinghamshire area.

Many Thanks

Chris

im sure i've heared of places offering 2391 to those with no more than 2381.

Hello Chris_Rogers

What SS has said is correct, however you can undertake the 2381 without any previous qualification's, a large number of BT guy's go on this course and most will have no electrical experience.

Like PW suggested, there are some colleges that will take you on 2391 with minimum qualifications, however most don't want to run the risk you won't get trough the course as it looks bad on them, and that is why there are entry requirements, as it happens, unless you have electrical knowledge already, you will struggle to get trough testing, and you won't know the reason’s why we do what we do.

I would strongly suggest doing the 10-week courses held by most colleges as there is a higher success rate than the 2-day/3-day courses, and the shorter courses can cost more.

Take a look at this link to get an idea of the cost of the short course

http://www.techniquetraining.co.uk/electrical%20short%20courses.htm

is this a new rule SS?  I've got my 2381 and hope to start a 2391 course this year.

However I don't have 2330 or 2361   (how did they let me do the 2381 course and exam?)

Does this mean I can't do 2391?

In any event, 2391 is not a requirement for part p registration is it?  I know you have to be 'up to speed' with testing and inspecting but I didn't think 2391 was an actual requirement.

Am I wrong?

[quote author=supersparky  link=1107199294/0#5 date=1107280332]well, according to city and guilds, you MUST have 2381 to get on 2391.

to get on 2381 you MUST have 2330 parts 1 2 and 3

or you must have 2361

thats straight from the c+g cos i dident wanna bother with 2381

so whatever these courses are allowing you to do without part 1 and 2 then it cant be the full 2381 or must be missing something.

also, it wouldent look good if you say to somone "i have 2381 and 2391......."


there first question will be
".....wheres 2361?"

ss [/quote]

Not so, I did my 2381 (exam only) at a local college. I was never asked for anything, other than a cheque for £25.  From my research, it is the course provider that make recommendations as to the entry requirements. Many colleges advise having electrical installation experience and a familiarity with the application of the regulations as a prerequisite for entry to 2381.  The reason for this being that 2381 is essentially 'refresher course'.

I am booked to do my 2391 with another provider, again exam and practical test only. this time the fees are £30 for the exam and £100 for the practical. They did not ask if I had my 2381 either.

The short courses that accompany the exams are, essentially, exam preparation courses.  There are other ways to prepare for exams eg stelf study.  
As for Part P, it depends on the scheme you join and the level of work wish to carry out.  I want to join Napit Level A - Full scope scheme, thus require both 2381 and 2391.

However I did not start from scratch, I have an HNC in Electrical Engineering and a few year of domestic work (albeit occasional) behind me.  All I want to be is a knowledgable, competent and properly certified person to carry out domestic work.  

Just a final comment, if you have little or no backgroud in electrical work beware the outfits that claim 'be a quailified spark in 8 weeks'.

Hi guys, thanx for the replies.

In regards to the longer courses being better, especially for the 2391 course, i have ordered myself a set of test gear so i can get to grips with the ideas ahead of a course.

Would also appriciate it if you could recomend any books i should buy!

[quote author=supersparky  link=1107199294/0#5 date=1107280332]well, according to city and guilds, you MUST have 2381 to get on 2391.

to get on 2381 you MUST have 2330 parts 1 2 and 3

or you must have 2361

thats straight from the c+g cos i dident wanna bother with 2381 [/quote]
As far as I was aware it was a recommendation by C&G, will see if I can find the information...

Quote:

Highly unlikely

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But people would be silly if they thought they were an electrician just by taking 238 & 239 courses, there add on courses to existing qualifications

I think you will find the 2381 course is pretty much open to anyone to take

Quote:

You will need to, 2391 expects you to have at least some knowledge in the field of testing and make's an assumption you are already actively inspecting and testing electrical installations..

[quote author=L.Spark  link=1107199294/0#12 date=1107298856]

2391 expects you to have at least some knowledge in the field of testing and make's an assumption you are already actively inspecting and testing electrical installations..
[/quote]
but as from Jan 1st you won't be actively inspecting and testing unless you're already registered, in which case you've already got 2391

ok, you could be inspecting and testing 'for fun' but unless you're with a 'scheme' your inspections and tests mean nothing  

[quote author=JerryD  link=1107199294/0#14 date=1107299681]
but as from Jan 1st you won't be actively inspecting and testing unless you're already registered, in which case you've already got 2391

ok, you could be inspecting and testing 'for fun' but unless you're with a 'scheme' your inspections and tests mean nothing   [/quote]

My understanding is that you do not require either 2391 or be in a 'Comepent Person Scheme' to carry out testing. (see page 8 of the ODPM Part doc).  Possession of a 2391 cert would be one way of showing competence.  

Part P relates to notifiable work only.  If no work has been carried out it does not apply.  A PIR is not notifiable and can be carried out by someone who can demonstrate competence and follow BS7671.  The issue of a PIR certificate is part of BS7671 that is why they are freely available  from the IEE.

However, it is no longer possible to issue an EIC unless you are a member of a Competent Person scheme as this would involve notifiable work.

Most schemes require 2391 or other prove of competence if you are carring out work that will require an EIC.

You can however issue a MWC without being a member of a scheme but can demonstrate competence.

In my own circumstances, it is perfectly possible for me to do domstic work.  If it is within the scope of Part P then I have to notify the LABC and pay £37. They will then inspect on 1st fix and be present when I test and certify.  This allows me to get the work done I need to show for the scheme 'assessment'.

[quote author=get_it_done  link=1107199294/15#16 date=1107304194]However, it is no longer possible to issue an EIC unless you are a member of a Competent Person scheme [/quote]
Of course you can.

Read what an EIC says, and tell me where the bit about being a member of a Competent Person scheme is...

Those schemes, and the concept of self-certifying are nothing to do with the wiring regs, EICs, MWCs etc etc, they are entirely to do with certifying compliance with Part P of the Building Regulations - something completely different.

[quote author=ban-all-sheds  link=1107199294/15#18 date=1107434467]
Those schemes, and the concept of self-certifying are nothing to do with the wiring regs, EICs, MWCs etc etc, they are entirely to do with certifying compliance with Part P of the Building Regulations - something completely different. [/quote]

Bas are you suggesting that there is some other way of certifying complience with Part P. If so, I would be interested to hear of this.

Hi,
In coming June I'll finish the 2360 part 2, according to c&G and the college I'll not need to do 2381 (16th eddition), it comes with this course.  The other point that I would like to make is that when I'm driving my car I follow the rulles, this is not because of the idiots in the government but because I think that this is important and I understand the risque to me and/or others if I don't, I have the same approach to my qualifications I could, may be, skip 2391, by finding a lot of convincing reasons, but instaed I already registered to do the  2391, which will start in April and this is not because of the ODPM, but because I want to know and understand... dealing with other people's safety is quiet a big responsibility...
Albert

[quote author=akuk  link=1107199294/15#22 date=1112201440]Hi,
In coming June I'll finish the 2360 part 2 [/quote]
Well done

Quote:

I'm sorry, but this is just not true, I am concerned if C&G have said this. You work to 16th eddition regulations, but you have not done the course. C&G2381 is a course that's JUST about the regulation's, you would cover the whole book, and this builds on what you have already learnt and used.

Some firms will not take you on unless you have C&G2381, regardless of what you may or my not have already, if you want to cover you're self and have something extra for the CV I would strongly reccomend doing it, however there's no hurry, if where you work or plan to work doesnt require it then don't do it, if they require it later they should pay for the course.

Quote:

I agree, and I like you're responsible attitude, if you enjoy the subject then 2391 should be good fun, most of the testing you will or should have covered in 236PT2, if you havent yet, you may before the end.

Question: are you taking the practical element of part2, or just the theory side?, practical is optional, but you would finish long before july if just taking theory.

[quote author=L.Spark  link=1107199294/15#24 date=1112208938]
I thing you should check it again, I'm an emgineer in general mechanics, I decided to change direction and for the last 3 years I am following the 2360 course P1 and P2, this courses are based on 16th edition, the oldest version I know about is the blue book.  I know that it is important so I asked the C&G, NIC and in college, and the reply was that after the end of part 2 we will not have to do 2381, check it and if you know something different I would like to know [/quote]
The problem lies in the wording, they say you don't have to......you don't, but you may go later to a company and find they insist on it, telling them you don't need to do it won't go very far, as I said before, it's certainly nothing to be hasty about, and you'd be advised to leave it until someone asks for it as they may fund it if they require it

Quote:

Sure, when we went trough part-2, the college centre gave us the option of doing part-2 practical, or just doing the theory, and I was more than looking forward to doing the practical so went ahead, having said that the joint industry board make a requirement to have completed practical elements of the course and therefore it's certainly worth doing.

It may be that they don't give you the option and you just do both, we were given the choice, doing just the theory side and exam would mean you finish a few months before the course end date, something like march I think..

Quote:

The best person to speak to if you want to find out more would be the lecturer, as they handle all the course material afterall

Quote:

this is strictly part-2, part-1 is a combination of both, I have a feeling you may have done the practical as standard, how many certificate's do you have in total - just for part-2?

btw, apologies about you're post, clicked wrong button  

spot on

[quote author=L.Spark  link=1107199294/15#26 date=1112312772]
this is strictly part-2, part-1 is a combination of both, I have a feeling you may have done the practical as standard, how many certificate's do you have in total - just for part-2?

btw, apologies about you're post, clicked wrong button [/quote]
I will ask of course, the course consists of 2 subjects: Electrical installation and Science, the first one seems to me like the more practical side of the course, it includs all the subjects that relate to circuit/circuits installaton, CU selection (includind the MCBs, RCDs, main switch etc.), cable calculation, BS7671- definitions, findin information, using tables, diversity etc. The other part is all the magnetism subject, motors , generators, lighting (Luminous intensity etc.), Star and Delta supply etc.  We have to sit 2 tests one for each subject, and each one of them will provide a certificate (the exams are in mid. June). To answer your question is that I will have 2 certificats for part 2.
I detailed all the above so you wiil see what we are doing in the course and tell me what do you think; is it a combined course?

[quote author=L.Spark  link=1107199294/30#31 date=1112621864]Hello AKUK

Thanks for the reply, it would seem you are doing both as you are doing both exams, there are infact 4 certificates (see below), the main thing is that you do the practical exercises..

• Electrical Science & Principles

• Electrical Installation

• Assignments & Practical exercises

• End Certificate, listing all that you passed

[/quote]

yes it sounds right, I did not mention the 3 assignments that wil provide a certificate, (in principal it is exactly as part one; 1 cert for asignments, 1 cert for electronics and for Elec instal and one for passing the course.
So it seems that I am doing the right thing...

[quote author=L.Spark  link=1107199294/30#33 date=1112629733]Hello again

If you're not getting to do this, you're not getting value for money, also it is not exactly the same as part-1 as there is no electronics exam.
best regards
[/quote]
I said in principle, and the strcture of getting the certificates, 2 courses, 3 assignments, 2 exams etc.  In any case i'll check the issue of the practical part.

[quote author=L.Spark  link=1107199294/30#35 date=1112632107]I think you must be doing a different course to what I know, part 1 and part 2 both have 3 asignments, and both have practical competencies, both very different.. [/quote]

This is the current 2360 curriculum, for part 1 and part 2 of the C&G, the exams and certificats are C&G, in any case I think we are the one before the last course before it becomes 2330 or something like that...